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Set over set deep stack play questionable.

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Set over set deep stack play questionable.

Hi guys im a live 200NL player and got in an interesting spot today where I had flopped a set OOP and got in trouble.

Im a super tight 11/18 regular at the room and villain is also very tight experienced player.

stack sizes.

Hero (CO): 450$

Villain (button):700$

UTG: 500$

BB: 700$

straddle hand and a tight player UTG opens for 21$, hero holds 4c4s and calls in CO, Button flats and BB flats aswell.

4 way to the flop with 90$ in pot. Board is 4h 5d 7d BB checks, UTG original raiser checks and I tank and before I act button places a bet and the dealers pauses action because I hadn't acted yet and he pulls his bet back, (I was initially going to lead out before I noticed this.) so I decided to check and see what the two be hide do before I act.) so villain continues his betting and dices out 35$. BB calls, and UTG flats aswell. I tank and raise to 210$ leaving myself with 215$ for a turn ship. villain tanks for a minutes and doesn't looks comfortable with my raise. he eventually flats the raise and BB and UTG fold.

Turn is Kc

now im in a awkward spot because I really can t put this player on much else but a set of 55, 77. he is very tight preflop range so I really don't put any 6,8 - 6,3 combos for straights in his range. only hand I can beat is his diamond draws.

left with not much else to do I ship and he tanks and makings some grunting sounds as he  mutters.. straights... and then calls.

River is a 2h

I show set of 44 he shows set of 55.

 

any thoguhts on how I can play this differently or get away from this hand or just some discussion in general about the play and situation would be greatly appreciated. Just a cooler or is this a spot I can get away without losing my whole stack?

 

5 Comments

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Chael Sonnen 11 years, 11 months ago

Straddled to 4 and UTG opens to 21? In EP I wouldn't mind folding 44 at all.

You said it yourself. You don't think that if villian continues after the big raise, he can have a straight. So why are you check-raising the flop if almost nothing that's worse calls? If he doesn't show up with a spazzy top pair or even 57 or something, you're not getting worse hands to stack off.

Calling the flop makes your hand look weaker than it really is and you'll get value from top pair, P/FD, 57 etc. You are OOP and there are a million terrible turn cards, but there's not much else you can do.

Btw, he should have bet way more than 35 and and also should have shoved the flop, not the turn.

WM2K 11 years, 11 months ago

So your a nit, people know this, and then you take a line where villain is crying when he has middle set and you have bottom set? Ya something went wrong for sure.

One solution is to be not such a nit and play some more hands and attack weak ranges from villains. This should balance your ranges a bit more, you ll force worse hands to give you more action. This is a complex solution and it mostly means being a better poker player.

In the mean time realize what your ranges look like right now and realize you probably are not going to get much action from worth with such a insanely nutted line. Either flat or raise an amount that you can be semi bluffing a reasonable %. Bombing it and basically telling everyone your range is bottom set and better is a sure way to get owned.

Roberto 11 years, 10 months ago

I think it a pretty hard board to play with 44.

We can choose 2 paths raise and play for stacks OTF or just call to pot control and fold to some scary card (diamond,3,8) or fold to some bigger bets.

If we will play for stack we are risking $425 to win 90$ + $35*3 + (425-35) = $585 (if just 1 opponent get in with us). Thus our range has to be 42,1% favourite -->  425 / (425 + 585)

We know he would play for stacks with 77, 55 (6combos) + 86s (4combos) = 10 combos that beat us. I think he would not play 63 as u said he is tight but i cant imagine we not playing 86s.

Now thinking in the combos that we beat, we can find some FD+SD or FD (A6dd, K6dd, A8dd, K8dd, A3dd, KQdd, AJdd, ATdd) or 2 pairs (like 75s e 54s) then we have something like ~14combos ... but even this 14 combos has a lot of equity agains our 44 ... so i cant imagine our range be better than 42%

So i prefer the call OTF to play a smaller pot and fold to a scary card or bigger bets ...

Chubs 11 years, 10 months ago

WM2K can you explain to me a little more how i would target weakers ranges by opening mine up a more?

basically im grinding 1, 2 to build a bankroll and pretty much as a job right now. its been my main source of income for a year now and i have been doing really well playing a ultra nit style. the 1,2 game where im from is really soft and no one pays attention to ranges and balancing ect... litteratly i can seat there for 2 hours fold everything then open a pot x8 bb and get 5 callers and there clueless of my holding or range. and the players are so weak most of the time they hit top pair and hang on for life, not thinking about ranges, or deep level of thought process whatso ever. i know my style would not work in bigger games where the thinking gets deeper, but for 200NL live it has worked for me for a year now. i play around 40 hrs a week making 4000$-5000$ a month.

WM2K 11 years, 10 months ago

You didnt totally explain the situation lol. Ya I wouldnt be opening my game up much in this situation except for stealing on the button a lot (I doubt it folds to you much though) and completing in the bb when getting great odds to continue. Also isolating weak players with 3 bets IP is going to be quite nice and I d look to do this quite aggressively.

Sounds like your doing quite well in the game so I wouldnt worry about it too much. Just be aware of your image and how thats going to effect the play of other good aware players in the game. I think thats where you went wrong here in this hand.


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