SB vs BB
Posted by emsterdad
Posted by
emsterdad
posted in
Low Stakes
SB vs BB
Hi,
I had JJ in SB and get 3 bet by a 27/21 with 11 3bet %. I 4 betted 2-3x, he 5-bet shoves, I call. He has KK. I lose.
In this spot, do we get in?
Do we flat.. if we don't really want to get it in with JJ pre flop?
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JJ is flipping vs 99+ AJs+ AQo 5.4% of hands and BB is definitely NOT jamming that wide of a range so i prefer calling the 3bet preflop
Hmm calling is perhaps better yes. Do we also need to add a spazz factor like k2s?
What do we do if we are the 3 bettor and we raise JJ for value?
Do we call the 4 bet?
spaz factor does not help your all in equity much
since he is the one jamming, he can put in tons of spaz 1 over cards like Qx/Kx/Ax vs your JJ and your equity still sucks, if hes shoving suited connectors its a different story
if your 3betting jj and he 4bets both calling and shoving are fine
but in this spot i prefer flatting a wide range - im calling a hand as weak as 97s vs bb 3bet so i need to flat hands as strong as JJ/AK so i dont get blasted postflop
if you are not defending that wide vs 3bets then getting jj all in pre is certainly fine and not -ev, just depends on your style and range
bvb is very dynamic and you can do way more diverse stuff - snowie likes limping some hands in sb, min 4betting from the sb vs bb 3bets with a very wide range, and flatting AA in this spot sometimes with tons of other mix strategy
if you have good sample on him just filter his 5bet jam range by position and chances are hes jamming closer to standard QQ+ AK here range here like most
I disagree on this for mathematical reasons. This looks like an ez 4b/gii for me:
1) vs someone who 3bets a decent % of his range, we will have a Straight 4bet for value preflop. jj has roughly 60% equity vs a 11.5% linear range. This will be even more vs a polar range obviously. For the most part i also expect his 3b% to be even higher in this spot. And BvB i would care less about folding out weaker hands as villain will still be forced to play a lot of weaker hands in a 4bet pot also.
2) facing a jam we dont look out for a range that splits vs our JJ: we need a Range that offers correct pot odds. That will be usually around 33%. So if villain jams QQ+/AK ONLY here, we still have a call with JJ (roughly 36% equity). And im sure we wont see those hands only here.
His BvB 3bet is probably closer to 15% if overall is 11%.
This is not a preflop nit profile so JJ clear 4bet and TT mostly but closer. Even 99 can consider "getting it in" but then mainly as 4bet shove together with AQo and AKo. Maybe some JTs too in 4brt jam if you want to have it. 4bet shove is most relevant against overly linear 3bet that is also on wide side.
JJ is more of a value 4bet against call 4bet range. Same for AKo and AQs (yes, AQs is a value 4bet here).
This of it this way. Vs QQ+, AK (pretty confident these are all going to play as a 5 bet All In in BvB situations) you have 36% equity. In general you have a break even call based on the math.
That range is unblocked and has 34 combos. That is @ 2.8% of all combos. I am making an assumption here, but he is 3 betting at least 10% of the time. The entire range is 115 to 130 combos (depending on how it is constructed). That means he is folding a TON vs 4b or he is making plays with dominated pairs or unapired holdings that only increase your equity.
So, when you take a break even play and couple it with the stacks of chips you scoop when he folds, you are doing just fine. I think you will find that you will encounter more AQs or TT than you think, so when you factor in some domination and more of a range that is unpaired (AQs) you will do even better.
I think I would draw the line at JJ with my paired hands. Maybe TT vs a guy who is 4 betting this often. I would incorporate stuff that blocks his 5 betting range and blocks him having AK......KQo, AQs and AQo are a good place to start.
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