River Bluff Sizing
Posted by BigDickPlaya
Posted by
BigDickPlaya
posted in
Low Stakes
River Bluff Sizing
I'm noticing that when I bluff river for half pot or even 60%, it gets called way too often. Is the standard bluff size on the river supposed pot in most situations? I'll dig through my database and find some specific spots but my river play needs a lot of work and I think I'm missing the most opportunities when, for example, I miss my draw after double barreling and then bluff river for too small of a sizing. Or cbet flop, check check turn, and then again ... bluff too small small on river and get called with ace high or middle pair.
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The bet sizing OTR is very dependent on the ranges that get there so this is a very situation dependent thing.
The sizing will be based on the bluff to value ratio of your betting range. This is a fundamental thing that you'd be better off learning from a coach/video than from a forum comment but basically you'll want to force your opponent to have a 0EV call.
Lets say the pot size is 5, you bet another 5. Pot is now 10 and villain has to call 5 so he needs to win 1/3 of the time to breakeven. That means you will need to be bluffing 1/3 of the time so you'll need to value bet 2/3 of the time, therefore have twice has many value combos as bluffs. Basically the % of your betting range that should be bluffs is the pot odds that your bet gives your opponent.
This is a really basic simplification of river play, don't take it as gospel of any kind, you'll want to learn more about strategy in general to know what sizing to use on each street, RIO has great courses and videos if you want to do that.
Usually when IP one the river you should never bet smaller than about 50% pot. The exception is if you are betting all-in.
Also if players are overcalling (which I doubt is true) then you can exploit them. So dont complain about it, just exploit them... or would you rather they were playing gto?
No, Sir. I would much rather they do what they're doing than play GTO lol.
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software - http://drivehud.com
NL Holdem 0.05(BB)
HERO ($6.64) [VPIP: 23.3% | PFR: 16.3% | AGG: 32.3% | Flop Agg: 35.2% | Turn Agg: 36.7% | River Agg: 18.1% | 3-Bet: 6.1% | 4-Bet: 9.1% | Hands: 3175]
CO ($1.81) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
BTN ($12.86) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
SB ($4.72) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
BB ($28.81) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 33.3% | Flop Agg: 0% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 100% | 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 100% | Hands: 1]
UTG ($7.61) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
Dealt to Hero: Qd Kd
UTG Folds, HERO Raises To $0.15, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $0.10
Hero SPR on Flop: [20.28 effective]
Flop ($0.32): Qh Jd Th
BB Checks, HERO Bets $0.15 (Rem. Stack: $6.34), BB Calls $0.15 (Rem. Stack: $28.51)
Turn ($0.62): Qh Jd Th 4d
BB Checks, HERO Bets $0.35 (Rem. Stack: $5.99), BB Calls $0.35 (Rem. Stack: $28.16)
River ($1.32): Qh Jd Th 4d 9d
BB Bets $28.16 (allin), HERO Calls $5.99 (allin)
BB shows: Ad 4c
HERO wins: $12.64
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software - http://drivehud.com
NL Holdem 0.05(BB)
CO ($9.37) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
HERO ($7.45) [VPIP: 23.3% | PFR: 16.3% | AGG: 32.3% | Flop Agg: 35.2% | Turn Agg: 36.7% | River Agg: 18.1% | 3-Bet: 6.1% | 4-Bet: 9.1% | Hands: 3175]
SB ($4.85) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
BB ($4.17) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 100% | AGG: 33.3% | Flop Agg: 100% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 0% | 3-Bet: 100% | Fold to 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
UTG ($4.60) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
HJ ($6.15) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
Dealt to Hero: 5h 6h
UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Raises To $0.15, SB Folds, BB Raises To $0.47, HERO Calls $0.32
Hero SPR on Flop: [3.85 effective]
Flop ($0.96): 3h Jd 9h
BB Bets $0.46 (Rem. Stack: $3.24), HERO Calls $0.46 (Rem. Stack: $6.52)
Turn ($1.88): 3h Jd 9h 4s
BB Checks, HERO Checks
River ($1.88): 3h Jd 9h 4s Jc
BB Checks, HERO Bets $0.50 (Rem. Stack: $6.02), BB Calls $0.50 (Rem. Stack: $2.74)
BB shows: Ad Kc
BB wins: $2.74
Probably should cut this from 3b calling range vs a guy 80bb deep. 100bb probably can call more often. We get to flops with higher SPR. Probably ok to pick 1 combo of the 4 and continue here but with the high rake/low SPR, hands like this become hard to play.
As played, this is like the very bottom of your range here on the river, but your range is quite weak to begin with (calling 3b IP). He has missed overcards/missed SD's/missed FD's/AK/AQ. We have at least 25 combos of trips+ and those hands want to bet pretty big on a non flush closing river. Size it up and you will be fine. It sucks we block stuff like 66/55/A5hh/A6hh/76hh but I think you still have to go with a bluff here otherwise we get run over.
Just wanna say this HH so cluttered hurts my eyes haha
anyways this is a standard preflop call according to GTO on flop
you can call but as soon as he checks he has not got AA KK QQ or Jx to me he would carry on betting all these its 5nl nobody playing fancy in 3bet pots your mistake for me is not barrelling the turn you have QTs villian isnt likely to 3bet QTs or QTo just call you also have Jx KJs QJs AJs though you can 4bet these hands at some frequency as a bluff if I were going to bluff I would attack his check and just barrel off and rather overbet or shove river soon as he checks he has capped his range to AK may AQ at best TT
Sure we have played together on Stars btw
GL at the tables
Stoic
You mainly want to use large river bets, But its board and situation dependent.
If you go bet bet bet line for example, your range is Pretty polarized, so i use mostly overbets and 66/75% bets mixing between those sizings. The smaller of the two sizings will include more thinner value hands like TPGK and the overbet is built More around very strong hands, and air ofcourse :)
I noticed you have some preflop leaks, go check pokersnowie, They have free solid ranges. That will boost your winrate right away
Sorry for only getting back to you now. I'm catching up on some stuff here but having a difficult time focusing. I almost lost someone very close to me today and we're still not entirely out of the woods yet. I can't see nor talk to them because of COVID restrictions so naturally I'm a bit anxious and can't sleep. Just trying to zone out to some theory videos right now.
What preflop leaks of mine have you noticed?
VS really good players bet sizing starts with how thinly you are going to bet for value. I ask myself, what is the weakest hand I'm betting for value? The answer to that isn't always easy. It requires that you are aware of each player's range enough to know the hands you would be targeting OTR for value. Then decide the size that will accomplish that and bluff with the right frequency. If people are calling too many bluff-catchers, you value bet more and bluff less.
VS most players, if you can stack your assumptions in a realistic way and have some idea of their range and how they might respond to different sizes, you just choose the size that is going to elicit the highest amount of overfolding, exploitatively, unless you give them enough credit to figure out what you're doing and pull the trigger on that read.
If you're triple barreling 60-75% pot OTR and getting called by Ace high it's likely that you should just stop bluffing and value bet more thinly.
BigDickPlaya
Too tight rfi and 3betting ranges. The snowie ranges are nice and free
you got no business trying to bluff people when they are overcalling, just value bet big and overbet for value
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