Preflop 3bet-sizings in 6max cash
Posted by lion777
Posted by
lion777
posted in
Low Stakes
Preflop 3bet-sizings in 6max cash
Hey!
Yeah so since a couple of months back I've been back on the grind after a couple years off, or when playing mostly playing tourneys.
In that time I've noticed a big change in the way most REGs(z100 in this case) size up their 3-bet-sizing PF.
A couple years ago I felt REGs were going more for the smaller sizing, eg. 3x ->8x ip, whereas now a lot people have a standard 2,5x ->9x, 3x -> 9-10,5x ip.
So mostly wanna get your thought about the most optimal sizing in today's games. Assuming we're playing a reg, what would advocate are the optimal sizing against a tight/loose villain ip? Do you altercate this sizing from different positions?
Loading 29 Comments...
IP vs.
2x --> 7x
2.5x --> 8x
3x --> 9x
OOP vs.
2x --> 8x
2.5x --> 9x
3x --> 10x
+0.5bb for every 20bb additional stack depth above 100bb. For example if someone is 140bb deep and opens 3x and I'm in position I 3b to 10bb. Max @ 11-12bb. Also change my 3b ranges OOP and IP as depth increases.
yeah those are what I use too except for the +0.5bb when deep, good advice I would try to add this to my game makes sense
what about your squeeze sizing? if u don't mind asking
Also depends on stack depth. But for 3bb open in CO, 3bb flat in BTN and I'm in SB/BB I'll make it 12.5-13bb ish atm. I use to do 10 (obviously not large enough) then switched to 14 and felt that it was too large. Now I'm doing around 13bb usually for 100-120bb stack depths. IP I just do 12bb. Say 3b in btn vs UTG open and CO call I do 12bb in BTN
I do 14 oop, it has worked good for me, why specifically did you change it? and 13 ip atm
I'm starting to think is too big too, like I think it would get the same results FE etc with 13 and 12 ip which is the "standard" sizing I'd say
Marked this hand thinking about you 678
Equipped with the 6x linear smash to face
Why ?
I just make pot why it's bad ?
Not all softwares calculate pot correctly, not sure why, but thats the case. So it depends on the site you play. Plus, its always nice to know how many BB your raising instead of relying on the computer incase you ever want to venture over to the casino and play live. There's no "pot" button at the poker table :)
I play on Stars, don't like others site, and hate live.
Is it correct to make pot ?
Hitting the pot button is fine is many spots, especially if all players in the hand are sitting around 75-100bb. But when you start having deeper stacks, say 130bb and higher, you want to make bigger raises and the pot button won't be large enough at that point.
This is something than I have never understand.
If we are deeper and than we raise bigger they will defend with the same range than normally.
If we are deeper and we raise the standard size they will defend with a larger range.
But why is it a problem ?
On button we raise smaller and BB defend very large is it a problem for someone ?
Why in 3 bet pot it should be different ?
Position in extremely more valuable the deeper stacks get and many suited hands go up in value. Because of this you want to be sizing larger and 3bing different ranges IP/OOP when deep. imo
So if you are deep, you raise bigger when you steal blinds from the button ?
I don't see a link between the fact than suited hand go up in value and the fact than we should raise bigger.
When you tell me than you change your 3bet range I can see it.
But for thr raising size no.
Can you explain the link ?
You could certainly begin to do that --- raise larger in btn with higher eff stacks. The downside to this would be that you'd be playing fewer hands. Those fewer hands might increase in EV for the sizing you chose since it's larger (although probably not by much), but you're now unable to profitably open many other hands without opening yourself up to exploitation.
You'll find that at small stack sizes the very opposite is true -- small raises/bets. This is a general trend of course. It's extremely likely a very wide range of open sizes and 3b sizes would theoretically increase your overall EV. This would be difficult to keep track of, however.
You say than if I raise bigger on BN I sould raise less hand.
When you say than you 3bet bigger when depper, is it because you 3bet less hand ?
Because if not I steel don't see the link.
I'm not sure I can explain it better. Hopefully someone more enlightened than me can chime in.
Interesting posts, thanks for the discussion.
It does seem like many regs at the z50/z100 do size up quite a bit. Especially IP, where like 2,5x->9x is standard for a lot the players.
Isn't this really exploitable? Our 4bet bluffs win more and are better sized whereas I, who chose a smaller sizing, sometimes have the option to just flat like 2,5x->8x(hero)->18-20x and have more options ip.
Opinions?
I think the best way to explain the concept here is using an example.
Say you have AA in the BB and the BTN opens, and you're sitting 200bb deep. If you raise to pot only, and bet all 3 streets, itll be hard to get all the money in. BTN open to 2bb, we 3bet pot to 7bb and he calls. 15bb in pot. We pot the flop and he calls, 45bb in pot. we pot the turn he calls, 135bb in pot. We still have about a pot size shove left on the river here which is going to make it tough for villain to call with a wider range of hands that we can get value from.
But lets change just one minor thing of 3betting to 10bb instead of 7bb since you're deeper. Now on the flop there's 21bb in pot, so you cbet 16bb and get called. 54bb in pot now. Bet 46bb on turn. 146bb in pot on river, and now you can shove your remaining 120bb or so and not have such huge bets on each street. I know thats a rough example with made up numbers, but hopefully it helps.
I like to take extreme point to validate one theory.
Let say we are 1000bb deep.
Is your goal to put AI your opponent by betting 3 street ?
Probably not, AI spot will only happen when theyre is x/r or raise and 3 bet postflop.
This will of course have an impact on the hands you choose to play.
But how the raising size can be influenced by that ?
3x IP to encourage calls
4x OOP to encourage folds (OOP sucks).
We want same sizes for our bluffs and value hands. :)
I would keep same sizing for all opponents. No reason not to.
If you have AA vs a fish and he's going to call an all in jam with ATC, it's better to ship it pre than bet small.
Sure but how often does that situation arise? I'm talking about playing against the majority of players in the majority of situations 100bbs deep you want to have the same 3 bet sizes.
You didn't say majority... you said all. I specifically identified a case in which that would be incorrect.
For what it's worth...
My 3 bet sizings are 3x IP and 4x OOP. I deliberately size up OOP to ensure I play fewer pots OOP. Playing OOP sucks.
In terms of sizing, there's always a perfect bet size which is usually different from a standard bet size;
1) How will villain react? If it's 4bet or fold then I prefer the smallest sizing possible
2) If villain is never folding, I go larger for value
3) I may go larger to isolate more effectively
In terms of playing deep stacked, the concept of sizing up is more to do with implied threat and works better Vs weak regs. A Larger pre flop allows bigger bets on the flop and turn with the effect of weak regs folding a disproportionate amount of their range because they're not comfortable playing big pots with marginal hands / capped range.
Therefore, when deep, I'd prefer to 3 bet more and larger however hand choice usually switches from high card hands to more suited and connectedness that can make hands worthy of 500bb pots.
Be the first to add a comment