Polarized or depolarized or mix strategy
Posted by Illia Shatalov
Posted by
Illia Shatalov
posted in
Mid Stakes
Polarized or depolarized or mix strategy
Hey guys
Kinda interested in what you ranges of 3 betting will be vs. different positions.
Would you use linear or polarized range?
When our opps strategy does not include a lot of calling, of course we will use polarized range not burning ev of coldcalling hands.
But when we are facing opponent with mostly coldcalling strategy our strat will be to build a strong depolarized range, so that we can have good board coverage and play on most boards.
But I see a lot of regs using polarized range of 3bets in general. Both in position and out of position.
I see the point of polarized range, we just take our best hands and take hands from our folding range.
But when it comes to postflop, it's kinda crap with polarized range.
We don't have playability on most boards.
I see that for both ranges our distribution of equity quite changes in 3betpots. We realize Folding equity the same with both ranges, but when it comes to realizing pot equity, polarized range sucks.
Appreciate thoughts on this theme.
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I use a mix strategy depending on villain and our positions during the hand so it varies a lot. For example though, I use a depolarized/linear strategy when 3betting from the SB vs BUT/CO almost always unless villain was only 4betting or folding vs my 3bets for some odd reason.
thanks for the comment, UpUp
I tend to 3bet more linear in SB vs late steals because i feel like we should fold a lot of our SB ( I 3bet mostly top 15-20% of hands depending of who is opening). But maybe using a mix strat like UPup is better because we can have better board coverage etc.
In the BB I feel like having a polarized 3betting range work better since we want to flat a lot there. So i prob 3bet like top 6% and add 9% of hands that are just below our flatting threshold
thanks, Gramsci, you are saying you would 3bet 15% vs. SB being polarized, so the ratio that you would use is 1 value for every 1.5 bluff right?
I also use linear 15-20% SB vs BU, around 10% vs CO (I have no idea of correct frequency here so I don't know if that is too much or too little)
BB vs BU I use polarized range and 3bet around 15% and flat around 45%, which I think is maybe a little tight? I do keep some of the good 3b hands in my flatting range though like ATs, KJo as I don't want to be to condensed in my flatting range and my range be too weak on High card boards.
Vaguely similar BB vs SB although I may flat alot more vs most opponents.
IP mostly polarized unless fish ofc then its back to a linear range for value/isolation.
Blinds vs MP/UTG im using a small 7ish% (again this may be to low I don't know) linear range (with a few A2-A5s thrown in) but ditching the more dominated high card hands like QTs, KTs, AT etc and replacing them with hands like JTs, T9s etc.
thanks Finci for your comment. I'd like to ask if you flat 45% vs. what sizing? and why would you pick up polarized range on BB vs BTN if you would be playing most postflop OOP and BU is primarly flatting 3bets.
I see the point of strong coldcalling range, but we would have much less bb/100 in 3bet pots with polarized rather than linear. So that is my argument for 3betting only linear when oop vs. any position, because they would tend to call more.
I agree with what everyone has been saying. sure our T4s will do worse as a 3b over a hand like QJs but that is not the point.
Our T4s does better as a 3b over a fold or call and that would be the reason. We need to defend a certain amount of hands in the blinds so that would just be the best way to defend a hand such as T4s.
In the SB we would instead 3b QJs vs BU because there is still another player left to act and we would prefer to take the pot HU or take it down. We do not need to defend as many hands in the SB so we just choose our best hands.
Really good thread. I think these are the spots that matter a lot if we want to get a better winrate at 50-100-200NL.
So i'll ask some questions about SB vs Late steals and hopefully get the discussion going.
Probably having a 3bet or fold strategy SBvsBTN is ok and as i see you're advocating a more linear range so i'm going to try this 12.5%: AA-99,44-22,AKo-AJo,KQo-KJo,AKs-ATs,A5s-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs. I put in some baby PP to 3b/5bet shove sometimes.Do you think this range is ok?
Now for SBvsCO i'll throw in some examples with preflop stats+postflop because i think our strategy should vary depending on opponent:
Ex1: Villain opens 2.5x, and villain has stats:
His agg% f/t/r: 37/32/33, wtsd 28. Which hands would you 3bet? Which would you call? (considering BB to reg)
I'll share my default range, all of which are being 3bet, from the SB against a standard reg's button open to help compare the two.
I play the following: AA-66, AKs-A2s, KQs-K9s,QJs-QTs,JTs-87s,AQo-ATo,KQo-KJo.
This gives me a 16.1% 3bet from the SBvsBUT and is the minimum defense range from the SB vs a BUT minraise steal of 40-45%. I'll add more hands the more the BUT opens/folds to 3bets.
@UpupAndAway
You said 16.1% is the minimal defence vs a BTN 2x. Where did you come up with those numbers?
I tend to disagree because MD should be calculated with both blinds. So I dont think a MD exist for SB, its more of a combination of the two. I might be completly wrong tough!
Thanks.
The numbers are from LeFort's video series from a few years back where he does the math and range construction and esimated a proper MDF. If I remember correctly, LeFort made some fair assumptions in order to determine how often our 3bet would get coldcalled or cold 4bet by the BB. This was the basis for my SBvsBUT range vs a "standard" reg although I oftentimes add more hands like medium suited one-gapper and a few of the smaller PPs since many BUT openers open 50-55%+ nowadays.
Note that this range is also meant to be used against a BUT minraise. If the button is opening to 2.5x or more then we don't need to defend quite as often.
hmm maybe you mistype or something but you 3b 22 but not 88? You 3b A2s but not A9s?
I don't think it is a good idea to have baby pairs in a standard 5b range although I do think there are situations where you can 5b
wouldn't 3b/5b as std with babyPP. yep, 88 and A9s should be in there.
what about the SBvsCO example?
thanks
In your example I would cut out the bottom parts of what you use for the button. The smaller pairs and the Axs is where I would start.
Why exactly is it better to play a 3b/f strat from the sb vs co+bn ?
I 3bet almost my entire continuing range from the SB vs BUT since it's very tough to balance a flatting range in that spot when you want to be 3betting your premium hands against such a wide opening range of the BUT. Also, the more aggro your games get the more your flatting opens up a very profitable situation for the BB to squeeze.
I do tend to flat a bit more when the BB is weaker and the chances of getting more money into the pot without getting squeezed is higher.
I play a 3b or f from sb vs all positions. I think it is ok to call with some JTo, 66 type hands in some BU min raise situations but I don't do it.
The range UpUp gave is a looser range than Bronson but a little bit better constructed imo. I think Bronson maybe steal his range and if you like that 12.5% then drop the bottom part of what he has if you rather be a bit more tight.
@Up - I know all that and i play the same.
But besides the obv reasons, shouldn't a well constructed mixed strat (which is obv hard to do and balance), be superior ?
Forhayley, Otb, King10 , Gogolsnose - just to name a few from mid and high stakes, all play a mixed strat if im not mistaken and have good results.
Your guess is as good as mine as to which strat is superior, if there is one at all. But I have no idea how to find the right balance with a mixed strat so I don't use it. Would be interesting to have Tyler do a video on his mixed strategy from the SB...
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