Playing against short stacks
Posted by Ryan
Posted by
Ryan
posted in
Mid Stakes
Playing against short stacks
1-2
unknown player in a low stakes game limps UTG w 30bb. We can assume his range is wide, but our fold equity is quite low even against his wide range.
SB limps w 30bb
BB Hero has JThh
Basically, at deeper stacks I am auto raising this. But given the shallow SPR, is it good to check a hand like this, or ATo, KJo, QJo type stuff?
In the environment I am playing in, I probably want to use a pretty large sizing preflop, as making it $12, I would expect to get a lot of action from the UTG and the SB to call way too much. I guess really tho, maybe that isn't as bad as I first thought. Initially I was thinking I would want to make it like $15 preflop, to get it HU more often or win it preflop, but with the shallower stacks, I was more hesitant to use the big sizing, and then leave a 1-1.5 SPR behind depending on how many players called.
I suppose I could just make it $12 here however now that I think about it, because even if the SB does call loose, our hand is pretty playable, and the SB will probably still have alot of weak hands that still fold like Kxo and Qxo etc etc. Going $12 or $15 might achieve similar things at this stack depth, so maybe the smaller sizing actually is more appropriate. What do you think? (this is a live game too, so expect loads of action preflop)
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UTG limped and SB limped? We are in a sandwich? Shove or call, don't raise.
Really? I didn’t consider that at all. There is 20% of their stacks in the middle, and probably a lot of weak hands in range. Guess this could be pretty good. What about things like QJo or KJo? Are you ripping these short as well?
No need to shove at all, especially in a live game. You'd be giving up all your edge which you can realize on them with every decision point coming up postflop.
Given that in 1/2 live games you can kind of get away with any postflop sizings (so you'll even have the chance to get it in if you want to), I'm okay with checking. I certainly see the adventages of a smaller raise but I'm a big advicate of having the best SPR possible as that will give you more decision points in the hand. In every one of those you are gaining EV because you make better decisions than (most) villain.
That's actually a good point. It definitely crossed my mind that by checking, I can still get stacks in post flop, which is a pretty good benefit. $6 on flop, we can bet like $6 flop, puts 18 on turn, with 52 stack, bet 15 on turn, and viola.
Thanks for commenting. Very good reminder
Bad argument. He should do the most +ev decision. Even if he is better postflop, shoving pre might be the best play
zinom1 Yes, and I believe shoving is not the most +EV decision. I've given my argument for it and you saying "bad argument" is not enough to convince me that mindlessly shoving 30bb preflop aginst 2 limps is the best we can do here.
Im on phone and on vacay but you can ran a sim on crev and guesstinate the ev of shoving. They might even fold always given their ranges are skewed to weak hands.
But they don’t fold always for sure. Def will show up with some slowplay a from time to time, or get sticky with things like AQ, AK. Think things like TT+ do get limped at a non zero frequency from a weak player especially
Not just those but in live 1/2 games it's very common for recreationals to limp and then call a shove as a shortstack with a bunch of hands which are ahead of us like KQ, KJ, KT, any Ax, any pocket pair. I've played 6 hundred hours of 1/2 in London right before corona and this is something I've seen a lot of times. So shoving with JT is a bit silly.
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