overpair 3bet pot - pot control?
Posted by Cosme Fulanito
Posted by
Cosme Fulanito
posted in
Low Stakes
overpair 3bet pot - pot control?
CO: $50 (Hero)
BN: $22.46
SB: $68.54
BB: $72.40
UTG: $50.75
UTG1: $49.25
LJ: $66.44
HJ: $52.40
BN: $22.46
SB: $68.54
BB: $72.40
UTG: $50.75
UTG1: $49.25
LJ: $66.44
HJ: $52.40
solid reg, OR UT 13% fv3bet 68%, fold to cbet in 3bp 27/17/0 respectively 5k hands
Preflop
($0.75)
(8 Players)
Hero was dealt
K
K
UTG raises to $1.50, UTG1 folds, LJ folds, HJ folds, Hero raises to $5.25, BN folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $3.75
UTG raises to $1.50, UTG1 folds, LJ folds, HJ folds, Hero raises to $5.25, BN folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $3.75
Flop
($11.25)
5
Q
9
(2 Players)
UTG checks,
Hero bets $7.25,
UTG calls $7.25
Turn
($25.75)
5
Q
9
3
(2 Players)
UTG checks,
Hero checks
River
($25.75)
5
Q
9
3
2
(2 Players)
UTG bets $15,
Hero calls $15
Final Pot
UTG has
Q
Q
UTG
wins $53.25
My side
1 - Am I losing value by checking turn and pot controlling river? As he is balanced he might be 4bet bluffing AQ sometimes, so less combos I can extract value right?
Villian side
2 - I would probably check raise river also on his feet, so he can get value from bluffs and will put me in though spot with KK AA. Or would you do that guys with 99 so I would have more combos of AQ to value river?
Loading 8 Comments...
You made it 3.5x in position vs Utg open 100BB deep?
1) Yes.Plus giving free cards to JTs-KJs/AQ.I guess you soulread him here, but in a vacuum turn should be a clear value bet imo.
You made it 3.5x in position vs Utg open 100BB deep?
How big are you suppose to make it in these spots? What type of factors should you consider when sizing your 3 bets in these full ring games? (usually in heads up I usually size my 3bets to $5 to $5.50 vs a 3x open to $1.50 and make it $4 to a minraise, not quite what size I should use if I play 6 or 9 max)
@Mush :
I don`t play much full ring mostly 6m, but if you wanna have a 3B bluffing range it`s logical to size your 3bets smaller in position giving yourself a better price on a bluff.I think 3x is more less standard.The way you measure it is 100bb+ stacks, if 1/2p flop and turn bets are enough to set up stacks for a shove otr then its ok.I wouldn`t go smaller then that, esp in FR.
I.E - Utg opens to 3bb, Btn raises to 9bb, Utg calls.
Flop-( 20bb ).Btn bets 10bb, Utg calls 10bb.
Turn(40bb).Btn bets 20, Utg calls 20.
River-(80BB), with like 60BB or so efective stacks.
The point is you give yourself better price on a bluff pre and postflop coz you rarely need to bet more then half potish.Try and calculate when you go with 2.5-2.8x and you`ll see it`s basically the same thing.
The weird thing you`ll find is that some weak regs will fold like 80-90% to 3x-3b, but will call 2.5-2.8x out of position, which is like a half/quarter of a bb difference.You should experiment with different sizes in HU as well, and you can pretty much abuse some of the regs that will have tough time adjusting to smaller sizings.Also in ring games when you have recreational players on your right, and you want to iso them pre 2.3-2.5x is perfect as you can do it with a wider range, but make bigger sizing postflop then vs regs.
Things to factor in :
- Position, OR`s pre and postflop tendencies, stacks, players behind etc...the usual stuff.
Awesome. Thanks so much for explaining that. Very well put, clear and concise answer. I'll give a try varying my 3 bet sizes heads up. The only situation I've done this in the past is I played a weak reg that min raised every hand in position and folded 80%+ to my 3x 3bet. I was able to bluff almost ATC against him from the BB and stole lots of pots preflop from him. Not to mention, when he called he played very fit or fold postflop.
I guess if I happen to play a fish that doesn't fold to my 3bets I could start exploiting him by 3 betting on the large side purely with my value range and pump more money into the pot with a stronger range than his 3 bet defend range. I could also very my 3 bet sizing to take into account the effective stacks too calculating stacks for a good river shove or turn shove if I'm playing a shorter stack.
Should I be slowplaying preflop premium hands when they steal from late position and have a very high fold to steal like 75+ ? I want to try and build a bigger pot preflop but they fold so much to 3bets.
Plop,
If they are folding that much to your 3 bets the answer isn't to slow play the top of your range, start 3 betting wider. Assuming you're the bb, if he folds more than 71 percent you make an immediate profit. With a smaller sizing he needs to fold less often and if you are the sb he needs to fold more often.
This analysis doesn't take into account post flop, but if he folds as much as you say you can 3 bet any two and open fold the flop when called and still be profitable
if you are considering pot controlling on Q9XX, then you shouldn't be 3betting KK vs his range.
I think I can stack him off on 9xx Txx, and If you think about the hand, and his stats, what hands will I extract value on the turn by betting? what my bet will acomplish ? it would be different if I have AA as I can get value from KK
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