Odds to call, always thinking in vakuum?

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Odds to call, always thinking in vakuum?

*** MOD: Moved to "Low Stakes" [2013-09-15 20:10 CET] ***

Hello!

Pretty new into pokermaths. Worked with a hand today where i calculated a had 17.5% vs fis range if he pushed turn. I needed 20% so it was a fold.

Then i started thinking that theres noway isildur would have folded there etc. So my question is: shall i always think of these spots in vakuum and fold if i dont have the odds aiganst fis expected range? Or can/shall i take it one step further and can call as long as my callrange are ev+ vs fis pushrange??

Hope someone can help me think, drives me crazy :)


5 Comments

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darren2607 11 years, 6 months ago

You should definitely be thinking about how your range is fairing against villain's and not just about pot odds. For example, if you knew a villain never bluffed with worse you wouldn't want to call just because of pot odds since it's clearly a losing play. The difference between your equity and pot odds is so small I wouldn't let that alone make the decision for me

BigFiszh 11 years, 6 months ago

Please don´t mix things up!!

First of all - there are no such things like loss leaders in GTO. There´s no way - simple no way, that we call with hands against the odds, just because it´s "good for our range".

"Then i started thinking that theres noway isildur would have folded there etc."

That´s nonsense.

"You should definitely be thinking about how your range is fairing
against villain's and not just about pot odds. For example, if you knew a
villain never bluffed with worse you wouldn't want to call just because
of pot odds since it's clearly a losing play."

That makes no sense. First of all, we don´t look at our "range", we look at our hand. Second, if Villain does not bluff, we don´t have the odds against "his range", so the odds can´t be in our favor.

"You should caculate the equity of your range versus the equity of your opponents range, not just your equity vs the pot odds."

Once we face an all-in, we should calculate the equity of our hand (!) vs. Villain´s range, everything else makes no sense. And we have no "equity vs. the pot odds". Pot odds just tell us how much equity we need. We can only have equity vs. Villain´s range.


darren2607 11 years, 6 months ago

Yes, sorry, my response was wrong, should've said 'hand' rather than 'range' in the first line. I'm then saying that you shouldn't be tempted into a call just because of good pot odds if you know you're beat, but as Fiszh says your equity in that situation would be 0 so you wouldn't be calling anyway

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