NLH HU 300 bb deep facing river 3bet

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NLH HU 300 bb deep facing river 3bet

BB: 3239
SB: 3814.50 (Hero)
Preflop (15) (2 Players)
Hero was dealt A K
Hero raises to 20, BB raises to 72, Hero raises to 170, BB calls 98
Flop (375) 8 Q J (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Turn (375) 8 Q J Q (2 Players)
BB bets 250, Hero calls 250
River (875) 8 Q J Q T (2 Players)
BB bets 420, Hero raises to 1160, BB raises to 2819, and is all in

ok I opend a new post because I finilly undurstand how to post the hand....


Hi,

thiis guy is a reg we palyed a lot together HU, around 17k
hands, the game is running quite aggro, he is 3betting aruond 28% and my
4bet frequency is around 8%, he call my 4bet light with any two playble
hands.he is capable to make big bluff on the river and looks
like in generally bet big on the river even overbet a lot with bluff and
value hands.I am a player that dont like fold and I have a reputation to be a bit station

9 Comments

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mplecki23 11 years, 7 months ago

Turn's fine, but man, puke the river. I would think you have some (2) QTs to raise the river with, but you should probably have a decent amount of AK, maybe use the Ad to figure out some freqs. It pretty hard for villain to have that many dd hands... T9dd/KTdd/KQdd maybe sicko bluffs, you have Ad, 67dd 65dd maybe. 

Maybe he's ripping in some AQ/KQ combos since he has a Q blocker. I would think that's the case more often than dd hands. Our odds are 1660 to win 6480 or ~25%.

I don't know what he 4b call range really looks like, but I would imagine JJ, QJs, QTs are there 100%. I'm not sure if 88 b3b river, but you can chuck it in. If he has QJo and QTo, your freqs will be a bit different.

we have 25% vs AQs, KQs, QJs, QTs, JJ

If you add in QJo, he can add 4-5 combos of KQo for you to be around 25%. Adding in QTo, and we can only take out 1 KQo to get to 25%. Adding in 88, if he bluffs all KQo we have 28%.


After playing 17k HU hands vs him, you should have a good idea what he has flatting 4bs. But his river range seems plenty protected for him to be b3b a lot of his Qx. If you think he checks the river with KQ/AQ, bc a 4 str, that certainly will change up his range, and will take a lot of bluffs out.


Marrek 11 years, 7 months ago

It looks to me that our river raising range here is AK and 99, so I don't think we can raise the river. 

I can't imagine we're playing QT for a 4b pf vs someone who calls alot.  I don't think i'd checkback the flop with a hand as strong T9 or QQ, leaving us with a very face up and capped range, while villain does a great job of repp'ing many boats.

riiiot 11 years, 7 months ago

I rised even because his river bet was smaller the usually, looked to me like a bloking bet. Then the fact that when I raise my hand is face up encrease the opportunity that he would turn his hand into bluff. 

In his calling range preflop I suppose there are even QJo,QT, Q9ss and may be Q8ss

MrSneeze 11 years, 6 months ago

I wouldn't raise this river without knowing what to do if shoved. Your line looks a lot like AK, and you can't have better very often.

I know almost nobody is doing it, but in this instance the only thing you had to think about was: what if he shoved? Because if he calls or fold, there's no more decision to make. So you made a mistake not thinking about that, and it's also the only mistake possible. I know, we all do this mistake all the time.

This is a good spot for vilain to bluff considering your range is capped and you are so deep ; he can rep a decent number of value hands ; still you say your image is stationary, and your line looks like AK and very few bluffs, so I think vilain will expect you to call.


Anyway, better to call river (tough in game) unless you know he would never bluff this river / he would bluff very often (if you don't have the read that he's unbalanced either way, then you will get owned like this).


Alex W. 11 years, 6 months ago

I agree with MrSneeze

Calling the first river bet is much better unless you think that it's a clear call or fold to a shove.

On this river your raising hands are going to be only AK and maybe TT (19 combos, of which only 3 are TT.  Also you may not be 4b TT 100%).  His value range is QQ, QJo/s, and JJ, which is 10 combos.  We're getting about 4:1 on the call, which means that if we are folding all of our AK combos and only calling with TT (assuming we have 100% of TT)  then we are giving him an extremely profitable bluff opportunity.  Also, this is a spot where his value range is so narrow that he really can't be bluffing much AT ALL for us to never be able to fold.  If he is bluffing with more than 2 combos of hands we can profitably call 100% here.  

Ignoring GTO/balance, this is a spot that is extremely player dependent.  If, as you say in your description, he is capable of big river bluffs and he is perceptive then it is likely that he's bluffing too often here, because it's so hard to construct a bluffing range that only has 2 combos in it, especially because you say he's calling your 4Bs so light.  He will show up with lots of random diamond hands that will be betting twice, and if he reads your range as capped it is very easy for him to be bluffing way too often with them.

Glaurung 11 years, 6 months ago

If he calls pre with all AXs, high suited two gappers+, KK-77and some mid/low SCs he needs to bluff lead the turn with all nines and all FDs (pretty likely) and then bluff river with 50% of the FDs (kind of likely) and then bluff shove 50% of his FDs (not very likely imo) for you to be 0EV on the call. According to my quick n dirty cardrunnersEV run. 

And i am also critical of the raise both pre and OTR. Seems pretty spewy. I saw that you think he can have QJo,QTo in his 3bet/call range but i dont agree. I would not be surprised if he didnt even 3bet any offsuite hands this deep. (except pps obv)


andhefell 11 years, 6 months ago

Addressing the question of how light you should raise this river; it depends on how light he would pay you off which in turn depends on how many bluffs you have.

Would you be raising a 9 to blow him off a chop? Definitely not, he can have stronger hands alot and there's no reason that he's capped to a 9.

Now what hands would you be bluff raising?

Low flush draws that decided to chc b. With 8% 4b and assuming ch/b FD range a small amount that's a few combos. 8 10 , J 10 AJ. These are both hands that will ch/b flop and call turn and now can't call. You shouldn't raise these everytime you have them, but a small percentage is definitely good. KK/AA, you will check these back a small percentage of the time on the flop and now these can't call and you would raise sometimes. Less than above as they dont block full house.

Although it's only very few combos of each hand...they do add up. Now let's look at your value raising range. Assuming we don't raise AK, it wil be limited to boats which decided to slowplay flop. Now we won't be 3bing alot of Q8 Q10 type hands.

So is it more profitable to raise more of the hands mentioned 2  paragraphs above as bluffs and balance with raising AK? Or to give up with the above hands, and flat with AK? Especially vs someone whos 3b 28% and calling 4bs with "any playable hands"?  In short, the first option. Of course versus someone with a solid value heavy 3b range I'd choose the 2nd option,


 

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