NL5z second nut straight v 200% OB OTR
Posted by thetho
Posted by
thetho
posted in
Low Stakes
NL5z second nut straight v 200% OB OTR
SB: $5.50
BB: $8.28
UTG: $8.23
MP: $8.76 (Hero)
CO: $4.15
I know this is too loose an open, but wondering how much of a snap call this is OTR and if we always feel confident with it.
At that moment OTR I was really hesitant to call as it screamed KT to me while when I look now there are enough other hands we comfortably beat incl. bluffs. Still, one of the first times I have the second nuts and see such a massive OB and playing deep.
But what's your population read here? Vs jam 2xpot with sets and missed flush draws?
I feel V's range after the call of my more polarizing bet OTF and X/R OTT is leaning towards 2P, KT, T8, and flush draws with a pair. OTR I still wonder if there are too many bluffs or value hands we beat with that sizing. Do we actually find a lot of calls by KT by population here? I know I sometimes call nut gutters even OOP, especially with overcards, when deep and V bets polarized as the implied odds are pretty sweet.
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Btw, anyone sees a reraise OTT?
I dont have much experience in NL5z, but that seems like a fine call, though certainly with a sigh. I would value more the fact that he might be overplaying 2P or a set rather than bluffs.
Jamming OTT is probably not GTO but I could see it have some advantages, as any h, any T, any 8, any K either kills your hand strenght or the amount of value you can extract from villain. I doubt that they would fold much of their 2P.
Blocking the nuts and unblocking hearts: call seems fine OTR.
We could argue for a 3bettingrange OTT. But i guess i would prefer KT (esp. KhTh) and balance this out with some blockers like TT/T9...
Btw pre is fine imo...
Open is perfectly fine!
River you just have to call in theory so you should call in practice unless you got some very very sick reads, it's just way too high in your range and you unblock hearts.
Flop I don't think they're folding any KTs with backdoor flush and that might be one of the kind of spot where population is overcaling (they should fold a ton of the other KT), but I'm just guessing so disregard.
Turn, if you were at 100bbs you can (and probably should) definitely raise there with T8s without hearts (just make sure to find enough bluffs as well), at this depth I'd imagine that this would still be true but I'm not too comfortable with big SPR SRP pots so don't trust that too much as well.
Thanks all!
Just on opening T8s in MP:
Great and actually interesting to know that two of you are fine with it. I have been playing around with openings in the last few days as I felt I'm a tad loose UTG and too tight in MP and CO, at least when I look at my RFIs. Thing is NL5z, to which I just changed back after a downswing in NL10, has really surprised me in terms of high 3B frequencies so I still wonder if widening up in MP to suited gappers is appropriate - which I wish as I love playing such hands. Still, haven't seen a general range which would suggest that. Any hints to go deeper on the topic?
My ranges from preflopguru.com suggest this open as well.
I'm opening T8s in mp only if I have a weak player in the blinds, but I'm not that lose in ug and mp. As played he can have worse hands for value and we saw in other hands posted recently that villans do make mistakes being deep so you cant think of folding this hand.
I'd jam on the turn. Quite a few terrible turn cards for our specific hand. As was said earlier, it probably isn't "GTO", but neither us nor our opponents are playing GTO at 5nl.
River is a call. Not super snappy, but still a call. Note that the J creates a rather hidden straight with the KT and T8. It's not as obvious as if the K or 8 had come on the turn. So, an opponent could easily overvalue a hand like QJ, J9, or even a slowplayed set like 66 or 99. As for bluffs, I'm not entirely sure what hand would turn themselves into a pure bluff aside from 87hh and AThh.
I know we should not in general post results but just wanted to say for educational purposes (as on 2+2 quite some forum members advocated folding on Stars at NL5z) spot on! V overplayed QJ here and I dig your analysis of that hand
One more question: If we 3B OTT, do we overbet shove or go 3-4x despite being obviously commited? Both options are a bit weird to me as the overbet shove is ridiculously large for the pot while the 3-4x is obviously committing us and destroying our equity if only called and a bad river hits.
dont post coolers
V had QJ...
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