Ok, I think Checking 66 on the river, in terms of our Overall gameplan is not a bad Idea. Think of how we would play our overall hand ranges on RIver. Say, If we balance our RIver Checking ranges, then 66 should be put into our river CHecking range. Since, We're most likely checking back a high Proportion of our KX hand ranges to either Bluffcatch VS Villains missed FD on river, and its too thin to value bet a hand like KX for 3-streets of value. By checking KX(Top of our river CHeck back Range), we also balance our river checking range, By adding hands like 66 into the mix, thus making our range unexploitable. 

If you compare realistically our Range VS VIllains range on river Spot:

I assigned Villain a plausible 2-street calling range ={TT-77,44-33,AdTd,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,K9s,9d8d,8d7d}

And our 2-barreling range of ={KK+,99,77-55,AdKd,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,AKo}

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt   1,290  games     0.001 secs     1,290,000  games/secBoard: 3d 7h 4d Ks 9cDead:   equity win tie      pots won pots tied

Hand 0: 56.124%    56.12% 00.00%           724        0.00   { TT-77, 44-33, AdTd, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, K9s, 9d8d, 8d7d }

Hand 1: 43.876%    43.88% 00.00%           566        0.00   { KK+, 99, 77-55, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, AKo }

**) Equity wise, even by betting our overall whole hand range on RIver, we're still losing EV in the long run. I'd rather have a more balanced RIver CHecking range, than to Bet river VS Villains Tighter Calling range IP.

i don't understand your logic here, how is villain jamming river with 88/TT as a bluff, when he's more likely checking back IP for SDV.

1) The only draws that missed is Flush, and if in fact we're faced with a river Bet, i think it's more Value than Air.

**) We 3-bet Preflop, and barreled on 2-streets. For villain to be betting a hand like  (TT/ weak KX)  river, is too thin VS our overall RIver Hand range.

The reason i advocate Checking on river is, Because the 9(c) river card didn't change the board texture by Much, If Villain is calling Us on turn with his value-range, then he's probably still calling us on river, since the 9(c) is a essentially a blank.

We're checking River, since 66 essentially still has showdown value, where the most likely scenario goes 

Check, Check, and we could see what is Villains Calling range VS our 3-bet, Bet/Bet line...

Ok, i see. Like i said, if Villain did have TT, i dont think he's folding much on river. I would just check river, after a bad River card, and bank on my showdown value, and see what Villain has.

If i was to put Villain on a hand range, it would be something like K(d)X(d)

Itstoothpasteiswear, 1) There isnt much draws we need to fold out on river other than a hand like T(d)J(d), which we are beating on river spot

2) TT is pretty much the top of villains river range(which is doubt is folding a high % of times)

3)7(d)X(d) combodraws, Villain is likely raising flop/turn with his hand for value/realizing his pot equity

4) 88 is probably the only likely candidate we fold out on the river, which is only 6-Combinations total

5) The reasonable 9X in villains hand range is (9Ts+), I would assume Q9s+ hearts to be raising flop a decent % of times, and K9 isnt folding river. So not many 9X is in Villains river hand range

***) By betting we're sacrificing equity just so we could fold out approximately 10 combination of VIllains hands thats likely beating our 66, while losing to the rest. I would be content with either a Check to see Showdown, or C/F....

ITPIS=keep the discussion going if u have counter arguments. :)

a reasonable range imo when we get to the river that is worse off for betting to be good is 33-TT, KQdd, KJdd, KTdd, 87dd ATdd

discount 33-55 by half cuz maybe he doesnt always call them PF (tho deeper people are always looking for an excuse to call) and because people suck and will sometimes raise them before the river.

Throw in ATdd as the only combo of busted draw that he didnt raise, tho I think this is siding on the worst case because in reality hes going to have more than 1 combo. 

hands he never folds: 33 (1.5 combos), 44 (1.5), 77(3), 99(3), KQ-KTdd(3), TT (3 combos 50% he calls) = 15 combos

hands he folds 55 (1.5), 88 (6), TT (3), 87dd(1) ATdd(1) = 12.5

you can argue he might not bluff 55, but he also might, but it doesnt much matter

so hes folding close to half the time (46%) So a shove is -EV, unless he folds TT more than half or has more combos of draws. But like I said, I dont think a shove is the best betsize, if we bet $16 he has to fold 40%, so its +EV. 

If you think betting $16 makes him fold TT less often, say now he only folds 1 combo, then he calls 17 and folds 10.5, so he folds 38% of the time, its slightly -EV

Now for betting to be the best play, it has to have a higher EV than checking. Of the 27.5 combos, the only ones we beat are 55, ATdd. Lets say for whatever reason (the batteries in his mouse die) he never bets those, then we win 2.5/27.5 = 9% so the EV of a check under the best scenerio is $2.14, which is roughly the in the same range as the EVs of betting depending on how he reacts. Personally tho I think hes going to end up having more than 1 combo of busted draw, and hes definitely bluffing higher than 0% of the time.

I agree that the 9 river isnt a great card for us, but not because it doesnt strengthen our range but because it it takes 6 combos of hands hell fold out of his range, and puts in 3 that hell call.

also, just to point out I never said I thought shoving was the best play, I just said I didnt think it was terrible. Now having done some math I still dont think its terrible, but I like betting $16>checking>shoving

Hey sorry to bring up an old post and I know this is quite a basic question but what would be your approach when flatting the BN raise pre flop? Do you just check / fold flop whenever there are 2 overcards and you don't hit a set? Would 66 be much different to 22 in terms of pre flop decision? Cheers 

It's pretty villain dependent but yeah I'd generally play it straightforwardly. I don't like getting out of line with this sort of hand unless I have some additional equity. You can c/r semi-bluff when you flop OESDs since you'll have some reasonable equity then.