[NL2z] Should I give up earlier with KK?
Posted by Pete S
Posted by
Pete S
posted in
Low Stakes
[NL2z] Should I give up earlier with KK?
Blinds: $0.01/$0.02 (6 Players)
BN: $3.83
SB: $3.63 (Hero)
BB: $5.10
UTG: $2.34
MP: $2.11
CO: $4.58
SB: $3.63 (Hero)
BB: $5.10
UTG: $2.34
MP: $2.11
CO: $4.58
Preflop
($0.03)
Hero is SB with
K
K
, , , ,
Flop
($0.36)
Q
7
T
, ,
Turn
($1.76)
Q
7
T
5
, ,
River
($3.46)
Q
7
T
5
A
, ,
Final Pot
BN wins $3.34
Rake is $0.12
Rake is $0.12
Hi all,
Really trying to get on top of my over-calling and range reading.
Should I just give up here on the turn, assuming two-pair or sets?
Any help most appreciated.
Thanks
Loading 9 Comments...
This looks fine for the most part. I'd raise bigger preflop and would consider jamming over that turn bet when villain never improves on that card and should still have plenty of semi-bluffs (though your hand cuts into those some).
Whoops, missed the fact that we're deep. Probably check flop? This is going to be a tricky spot and I don't think that we want to pile money in at these stack sizes.
The flop raise looks very strong considering it's a 3 bet pot and were 200bb deep. This is typically a pretty strong range of sets/2P and we're OOP so I don't hate folding to the flop raise. Our hand has bad equity on the flop in the sense that we are vulnerable to all sorts of problems as the hand develops. Draws getting there, getting bluffed on later streets, massive reverse implied odds or an Ace hitting. Against a crazy player you could just ship the flop, but against most reasonable opponents I'd like to think that I would fold, although easier said that done in game.
Another way of putting it, is you have invested 43 cent so far but are risking losing 320 cent with not much idea of where you stand. But it's likely if the money goes in you are behind.
I agree with James, I would give strong consideration to checking this flop. The stack sizes are awkward and the wetness of the flop really favors the IP player, so I probably check my whole range here.
As played, I think the flop raise is too small to fold with the odds you're getting. You can definitely see these small raises with Qx that is afraid of the draws. The turn bet is also pretty small so I think you're fine calling here as well. River def check/fold.
Thanks for your thoughts everyone, I really appreciate the replies.
So, I think I understand how the flop favors BN, they have more suited connector type hands - right?
The thing about stack sizes is interesting / unknown to me. I can see that you both suggest checking, but my rational is to bet for value (get him to call his draws and single pairs). How is does this change from being a value bet to a check because of stack size? I guess it's related to Lemmings second comment - just trying to get my head round it.
The flop favors the BN both because they generally have more suited connector type hands, but also because really wet boards like this are very likely to have turn and/or river cards that significantly effect the relative value of various holdings. This strongly favors the IP player because they get to see how you react to the important new information, which is a huge advantage. On super dry flops, such as A66r for example, the turn and river cards aren't going to change things nearly as much so the value of being in position (while still there) is much less.
In terms of stack sizes, there is a kind of short cut concept called SPR (stack to pot ratio) that gives you an idea of how good your hand is going to be if all the money goes in. (sorry if this is old information for you). I believe this concept came from the book Professional No Limit Hold Em, which I'd recommend reading if you haven't. On this flop, our SPR is somewhere between 9-10, which makes playing an overpair much trickier, and if/when all the money goes in, we are much less likely to be good than if we have an SPR closer to 4-6. This by itself doesn't mean we can't value bet, it just means we can't do it with abandon. To me, the above issue about the board favoring him + the fact that the SPR does not favor our hand makes it a check to me.
Hope that helped.
I would have bet slightly different here:
PF a bit stronger 3Bet to $0.24
FLOP Cbet to 1/3, something like $0.13 or so
I play check/fold on turn, we're beaten most of the times.
Greetings!
Thanks for all your comments and feedback everyone, I might be wrong, but it feels like it’s helping already!
Appreciate it
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