NL25 4bp: AQ + BDNFD on 96x 2tone

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NL25 4bp: AQ + BDNFD on 96x 2tone

Blinds: $0.10/$0.25 (6 Players) BN: $23.90
SB: $34.30
BB: $26.21
UTG: $30.38
MP: $25.35 (Hero)
CO: $39.29
no real reads on villain,
appears reggish over a small sample and has 3bet before
Preflop ($0.35) Hero is MP with Q A
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, CO folds, BN raises to $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, BN calls $3.25
I wasn't 100% sure if calling is better. I'd likely call AQs and AJs and also this hand if I was in the CO but felt like this is slightly too bad to defend readless.
Flop ($11.35) 6 2 9
Hero bets $3.70, BN raises to $7.40
Again, I wasn't 100% certain of how to play all my whiffed AK, AQ combos here. I'd likely just c/f most of them but feel like I should at least do sth with the ones I have a BDNFD with, whether it be c/c'ing or betting myself.

Is this okay as played? Do I have to make a disciplined fold here because this is KK+ too often or can I make an oddscall and be good / do sth on a A/Q/club turn?

18 Comments

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Disharmonist 9 years, 9 months ago

I 4bet something like 6.30. This may look not so much of a difference, but people will react more predictable and straighfoward which means they way more often and I wont have these awkward spots. Same goes for flop bet.

ohgodwhy 9 years, 9 months ago

Yes, because you invest so much as to where your bluffs become less profitable and they don't have to defend as often to still make profit.
I considered my sizings as more or less standard in a 4bp scenario 100BBs deep. Interested in other opinions then.

Kalichakra 9 years, 9 months ago

I think your sizing is good. My standard is 20BB OOP and 18BB IP.

I think preflop is really close but my standard is to 4bet too.

I'd jam OTF. Villain looks like JJ-TT who wants to protect now and if he's the type of villain who slowplays AA-KK preflop i think he continues to do so most of the time.

Disharmonist 9 years, 9 months ago

min donk 4bet: 5.50, flop bet 3,70 = 9.20 ---> 6.30 way cheaper o 4bet bluff with a size that doesnt induce so many calls.

Disharmonist 9 years, 9 months ago

How do you profit if you bloat the pot by "forcing" calls with A high pre, with a hand that misses 66% and then you are where you are at now.

Kalichakra 9 years, 9 months ago

Ahigh is just a part of my range. You have to worry about my AA-QQ.

I'm mostly exploiting the fact that people don't 3bet often enough in these spots and tend to 4bet for value most of the time though.

Vs a good player i need to defend GTOish and i think AQo is simply a good bluff.

Disharmonist 9 years, 9 months ago

Sorry, you confuse me right now" I'm mostly exploiting the fact that people don't 3bet often enough in these spots and tend to 4bet for value most of the time though." Do you mean 4betting instead of 3betting and 5betting instead of 4betting?

Disharmonist 9 years, 9 months ago

We also have to use this size for QQ-AA and ak, which sets up strange SPRs OTF and villain will a) lose less if he peels flop than if we would have 4bet bigger b) will not attempt to 5bet bluff shove because he can see a flop that cheaply.

ohgodwhy 9 years, 9 months ago

I just don't think you need to make it as big as $6.30 to achieve the same goal, namely threatening his stack and defending appropriately to his 3bets with your range. You also lose the ability to play a 3 street game postflop if you decrease SPR by that much. Of course some spots will be easier to play because you narrow ranges down by so much that they become more and more defined. But as I stated above, you can't bluff as much because this gets quite expensive then (even more so if you chose to cbet) and you won't get as many bad calls with the value portion of your range because you lay him a worse price.

That said, I don't like shoving the flop with anything at all really. I don't think he folds or should fold an overpair there and I think my FE will be way higher if I bet $3.70 with this and jam a K turn.

QuantumTM 9 years, 9 months ago

I prefer calling pre, i can't see what calls us with worse when we 4bet and we weaken our flatting range a lot if we're 4betting this.

As played b/f flop is fine. Vs any made hand here we have <30% so he has to be bluffing tonnes to make some kind of play back profitable.

Kalichakra 9 years, 9 months ago

I don't understand why everyone thinks this is a clear fold.

If we jam and villain calls with JJ-TT then we have 27% equity with AcQs so we will lose 11.50 on avg. If we fold to his raise OTF we're going to lose our 4bet+cbet for a total of 9.20. The difference is not that big imo and we're certainly tougher to play against if we jam.

ohgodwhy 9 years, 9 months ago

Good point. I also though about calling and openjamming all cards which improve my hand. Stacks might be to shallow for it though. And I think we're running into trouble range-wise if we do so with all of our AK, AQ combos.

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