NL25: 3b pot 3way - marginal TP IP
Posted by ohgodwhy
Posted by
ohgodwhy
posted in
Low Stakes
NL25: 3b pot 3way - marginal TP IP
SB: $25
BB: $25.70
HJ: $55.36
CO: $27.07
BN: $25.25 (Hero)
BB: $25.70
HJ: $55.36
CO: $27.07
BN: $25.25 (Hero)
CO 38/38/13 hands
SB 24/14/21 hands
SB 24/14/21 hands
Preflop
($0.35)
(5 Players)
Hero was dealt
T
J
HJ folds, CO raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2, SB calls $1.90, BB folds, CO calls $1.25
HJ folds, CO raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2, SB calls $1.90, BB folds, CO calls $1.25
Flop
($6.25)
J
9
3
(3 Players)
SB checks,
CO checks
Is it better to cbet or check this back? I'm a little worried because I feel like I can't happily call a c/r from either player and they shouldn't call me with much worse. That I'm on the BTN with the best position prolly speaks for it but I'm still not sure. I'd also check this back with a big part of my 3betting range.
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Well the problem with betting here is that not much worse will call and you have the the Th in your hand that block a lot of the potential draws they can call you with. I personally am checking back and calling good turns and then decided on rivers.
And personally I'm not putting JTo in my 3 bet bluffing range here, I much rather have JTs :).
The 3bet pre is fine, not mandatory but fine to flat and fine to 3bet.
For the flop a Cbet for both value and protection seems the best play..there's plenty of worse hands that call, there's both flush and straights that are drawing. then there's all the mediums A's and under pairs that arent ready to give up yet.
Whether or not you stack off with your weak top pair i think depends solely on your opponent, i think (could be wrong) that situations like this its not possible to say 'bet/fold is best or bet/get it in', there are plenty of villains out there that will X/R with A4hh and plenty who will only raise once they have the nuts.
Plenty of worse hands? Well, that's probably 3 combos of TT and very rarely A9s, T9s, 98s. And I also don't think they'd call than more street so I can as well bet later and prevent me from building too big of a pot with just a very marginal hand 3way.
It's true that there are some draws out there and/or hands I'd like to just take it down against but I don't think I can 2barrel the turn vs either calling range, so draws will see a free river anyway and I also think the possibility of getting c/r from a drawheavy but still too strong of a range is so high that I'd prefer checking.
The biggest problem probably is that either player can have QJs, KJ and AJ, the SB even JJ+.
Concerning the 3b pre: Yeah, it's on the light side but I'd definitely just flat JTs and I like to have a wide, not too polarized 3betting range in these positions. I could also see a call but JTo is fairly weak and I'd like to have more postflop reads on my opponents and preflop stats on the blinds to consider that.
JJ+ and Aj are (i think) unlikely at best, but KJ and Qj are some what likely the only issue is, if we are in this situation again with QQ's how often do we check back? i don't know about you but I'm not checking often, so when we check we instantly cap our range, So (play it out) we check and the turn is a blank if one of the vill's bets it, we cant raise as we don't rep anything so we call and we either have a weak pair or a flush draw...
we also need to bet for protection, one advantage of betting is trying to get the pot HU, say we check and go to the turn, any A, K, or heart instantly kills our ability to get value from our hand, then there's the 5's 6's 7's that would occasionally give on of the vill's a set, even a Q will do more damage than it will help us.
On the pot control part of not betting, I've been wondering about that lately, all I've come up with is that its good for reducing variance. I couldn't think of another reasons, but it will give extra value and protection from draws and unders etc..
So say we bet flop, what do we do if we effectively get shoved on? that's what i was talking about in the second part of my first response. I'm going to guess and say if we were completely read-less we fold, but then if we were read-less then 3betting pre is mistake i think.
The more i think about, I'm not sure how many hands are raising that we beat..I'm starting to think we can get called by worse but not often raised by worse...we definitely have a fence for a hand....what do you think so far? I think i'm going with B/C flop and decide on turn...
Well, I think the easiest and most efficient way to go about hit spot is to just play GTO optimally since we otherwise have to guess about their ranges and tendencies and will most likely be wrong in either direction.
I'm not that experienced with structuring GTO ranges though. I think this still is one of the stronger made hands of my range as I'll often have missed broadways or occasionally 9x. OTOH I won't have very many strong draws beause I'd tend to flat the better suited hands preflop.
Given that, it probably still is a flop cbet but I can't imagine being good often enough facing a raise. I feel like in that case I'm either very slightly ahead vs a strong draw or crushed by a better made hand. Feels weird to b/f such a strong hand in absolute terms but I guess most of my values comes from folding out their equity shares and getting the occasional call from worse.
I think sth like KJ or AJ is where I'd start to think about not b/f the flop.
Would check HU vs. CO and even more so here.
Im always betting this flop your getting value out all FDs and SDs as well as some smaller pocket pairs.
fold pre. @OP im not gonna go into this hand more but "mitch checkraisedonkey" is a regfish and so are the other guys posting here probably since they are having a discussion massacre with him lol
hahaha, lol I'm not 3betting this alot, but folding pre is insane. the only people who should be folding to a standard open form a loose CO in position are absolute begginers who havent learnt to play post in any other fashion other than abc poker.
if u 3bet as wide as offsuited connectors like this (suited hands are prefered as 3bet bluffs) u will end up folding a ton to 4bets. if u get called and the opponent is using good strategy u will get exploitet aswell. its not like the regs on 25 play abc poker isnt it...
calling is even worse against an unknown regular and unknown regulars in the blinds, the hand has terrible playability postflop and reverse implied odds over every offsuited hand co opens.
now lets say u as a semifish are on the btn, since pre and postflop ur probably a single leak, u should go far down in ur range to decide which is the weakest hand (which is +ev) in ur calling and 3betting range.
i guess ur coldcalling range here should be like KQo, AJo - AQo for the offsuited hands and a player like OP could probably go a little wider.
Also, what are your BTN 3-bet and CC percentages?
lol
(sucks for the microplayers who actually give weight to his analyses)
i mean i dont want down this mitchel guy but if u have no clue just stfu.
and i play midstakes NL professional so im the one who knocks here not u mitchel
(trolololol)
Even though you disagree with him which I also do, there's no reason to be this rude imo.
"hahaha lol ...folding pre is insane"
hes just a annoying deluded dick-fish.
or he is a troll....
anyway this bores me please nobody reply here again thx.
it is actually a fold pre lol
Dude you need to chill...
When have we run into each other? I don't remember you if we have.
For the record i said i'm not 3betting this, but if i'm just at a normal table i'm not folding either. I agree in that it will obviously be the bottom part of my cold calling range but 10Jo IP is fine for me, when it was a standard open from the CO.
Say what you want, it doesn't bother me. You can fold call or raise what ever hands you want.
And @Frabb, haha
lol
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