NL200 KK preflop deep vs cold 4bet
Posted by Resolve
Posted by
Resolve
posted in
Mid Stakes
NL200 KK preflop deep vs cold 4bet
Blinds: $1.00/$2.00 (6 Players)
UTG: $244.84
MP: $205.00
CO: $525.70 (Hero)
BN: $576.21
SB: $248.36
BB: $221.00
MP: $205.00
CO: $525.70 (Hero)
BN: $576.21
SB: $248.36
BB: $221.00
Preflop
($3.00)
Hero is CO with
K
K
, , , , , , ,
Flop
($793.06)
J
Q
J
Turn
($793.06)
J
Q
J
K
River
($793.06)
J
Q
J
K
5
Final Pot
CO
wins and shows a full house, Kings full of Jacks.
SB lost and shows two pairs, Aces and Jacks.
CO wins $512.72
Rake is $3.00
SB lost and shows two pairs, Aces and Jacks.
CO wins $512.72
Rake is $3.00
Right after I shoved, I noticed that I am 250bb deep with the BTN and now I'm wondering if it was a mistake.
100bb deep it would be an easy 5bet all in but what is the right move with these stacks?
Loading 8 Comments...
How do you want to play your AK,QQ here?
I think those are a fold. With 100bb stacks I would probably shove but I think it's only slightly +EV. And if SB doesn't have a cold 4b/fold range it's -EV.
I don't think having a calling range is good as pfr vs cold 4bets but I'm not sure.
250BB is pretty much on the cusp of being able to fold your kings pre, not here but say you were to 5B and face a 6B shove.
Because of this I'm fine not having a 5B range when we get this deep, or maybe exploitatively 5B your aces versus weak players that can't say goodbye to their queens and jacks pre. Having said that not 5 betting your aces is fine against weak players as well, you'll still stack their kings 9 times out of 10 and they will convince themselves that their jacks/queens are the nuts when there isn't an overcard. Also allowing people to realise equity when they 4B you isn't really a big deal because 4B ranges are super tight and likely very light on bluffs so you don't have much to gain from folding out the equity that the bluffing part of their range has against your kings because it may not exist.
Interesting spot.
What about a small 5 bet with qq+, ak? Say 45 to 50bb.
Fold qq and ak if btn 6 bet shoves.
Stack off with entire 5 bet range if sb 6 bet shoves.
If btn calls and sb shoves, we are in a tough spot.
The problem with just calling the 4 bet is we give the btn too much leverage to play his qq and ak aggresively as a value bet agaisnt sb and bluff against us.
Id much rather be the guy who takes that leverage and puts btn's qq and ak in a tough spot.
This was going to be my response as well, but I think the 5 bet needs to be more polar where hero is flatting some QQ and AK hands vs SB cold 4 bet, then 5 betting hands like A3s-A5s & KK-AA.
CO opens 2.5bb,
BTN 3b 8.5bb,
SB 4b 19bb,
Co 5bet to 45bb. [A3s-A5s, AA-KK].
*If you face a button shove you can fold because you are only putting in about 20% of your stack. I think 5 bet folding a hand like QQ and AK takes a way a lot of the value. Peter Clarke talks about not 4 betting TT in his 'From the Ground Up' series for the same reasons. Only 4 bet if you are planning to stack off.
Snowie has QQ & KK as a call. AA as 5bet 100% and then AKs being a mix of 5 bet and calling. If I chose 2x pot Snowie includes some AJs-AQs as well for jamming.
5 betting to 45bb with A3s or A5s may commit us with those hands againat the 6 bet shove fron sb for 100bb..
If SB doesnt 6 bet shove qq and ak he can get owned too hard by folding too foten after putting in 19bb. If he does shove those hands, we are committed with A3s to call off.
Snowie's solution looks interesting although bit too nitty.
Snowie is only continuing with 22 combos after presumably opening a 25% range in CO...that's less than 2% ..and around 8% of his CO open range. I thought the equillibrium was around 10% ..but may be the button being a deep stack changes it from 10% to 8%.
Also i am surprised snowie 5 bets AKs and folds AKo..i woud think since AK is being used as a bluff..that the 5 bets would come from some AKo amd AKs would go in the flatting ta.ge with better playability.
Ako blocks 2 combos of AKs .and AKs is a bluff either of our opponents might decide to use facing our 5 bet.
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