NL10z Turn X/R range OOP in 3b pot

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NL10z Turn X/R range OOP in 3b pot

Blinds: $0.05/$0.10 (6 Players) BN: $38.40
SB: $10.10 (Hero)
BB: $24.28
UTG: $7.69
MP: $11.38
CO: $31.48
Preflop ($0.15) Hero is SB with 6 5
2 folds, CO raises to $0.25, BN folds, Hero raises to $1.00, BB folds, CO calls $0.75
Flop ($2.10) J 3 7
Hero bets $1.38, CO calls $1.38
Overall probably a board I wouldnt cbet too often. Think my hand makes a great case to be bet, one of the worst FDs I could have and doesnt have SDV along with a gutshot
Turn ($4.86) J 3 7 4
Hero checks, CO bets $1.60, Hero raises to $7.72 and is all in, CO folds
Pretty nice to hit the nuts obviously, I figured its a great board to play X/R here since we could just make it look like we have a missed AK and could expect enough value/protection bets from villain since hes also a reg in these pools (like T9s, 98s, weaker 7x, Jx, some FDs). I would even expect his slowplayed sets to play this way. Im just not sure whether my hand is some sort of overplay, seeing that I would also have the FD going with it.. heres a list with my arguments

Pro X/R:
- We get calls from value hands that may not call on certain runouts (donking OTR on a diamond will look like a flush too much and therefore we get a call max with some lower sizing)
- We get value from stronger FDs that are also calling the shove (combo draws or OC+FD, assumes he bets those also like that OTT)
- We get an additional protection bet in from weaker holdings/bluffs in his range

Negative X/R:
- We lose value from middling type of hands that fold v a raise that could maybe try and bluffcatch if we donk OTR on non-diamonds (rare on my stakes, but this reg could be capable of it)
- We take away the opportunity for villain to continue bluffing with T9s/98s OTR. Imo, players usually underbluff rivers though on my stakes, but I can see him taking stabs OTR as Ive seen one time in a pot with him

Im somewhat more on the side of X/R instead of slowplaying it.
Final Pot SB wins $8.06

5 Comments

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Shaun Pauwels 4 years, 9 months ago

Are you playing SB as a 3-bet or fold strat or do you have a call range? Would change our strategy a decent amount.
Flop can go all three ways. Unless we play range check we are going to have a cbet range and this hand would do well in that. It's 6 high so is getting better hands to fold and has insane equity when called.
If we are going to put this in a check range (also fine) it would be to add it to a check/raise range. What exactly would be the plan on non diamond, non 4 turns with this hand when we check/call flop? Check/fold turn?

Turn x/r after a flop x/c on this turn feels weird to me. Mainly because I would not have this line with 65s. We do have nice bluffs in A5s but what then? KQs blocking his stronger Jx?
But having a x/r range here makes sense.

  • We get calls from value hands that may not call on certain runouts (donking OTR on a
    diamond will look like a flush too much and therefore we get a call max with some lower
    sizing)

Why would we be donking on river on diamonds?

  • We get value from stronger FDs that are also calling the shove (combo draws or OC+FD, assumes he bets those also like that OTT)

Are we? He has to call 6.12 to win 20.30 so he would need to get there about 30% of the time. T9dd would have 12 outs at best so ~25%.

  • We lose value from middling type of hands that fold v a raise that could maybe try and bluffcatch if we donk OTR on non-diamonds (rare on
    my stakes, but this reg could be capable of it)

Want to know why it's rare? Because 3-betting pre, check/call, check/call and then donk on the river is super underbluffed. It makes 0 sense to do this line. Please remove this donking thing out of your game for now.

  • We take away the opportunity for villain to continue bluffing with T9s/98s OTR. Imo, players usually underbluff rivers though on my
    stakes, but I can see him taking stabs OTR as Ive seen one time in a
    pot with him

Agreed. People will underbluff and likely not even bet thinly for value either. x/r on turn will likely get more value overall.

crazyriver 4 years, 9 months ago

Are you playing SB as a 3-bet or fold strat or do you have a call range? Would change our strategy a decent amount.

lIlCitanul Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Readless, I'd really have no idea what to do here. Probably just fold it at SB.

I'd much rather 3-bet this from the button, or maybe even BB (although it plays fine with a call there I guess).

Shaun Pauwels 4 years, 9 months ago

Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Readless, I'd really have no
idea what to do here. Probably just fold it at SB.

When CO opens and you are in the SB, do you have a set of hands that you call with? Or do you only ever 3bet hands in the SB against CO opens.
For example call 55-TT, A6s-AJs, 87s-QJs and 3-bet JJ-AA etc...

downflux01 4 years, 9 months ago

I play 3b or fold. Id also be curious about the different strategic input you have. If the BB is a fish im mostly flatting and then I could see this being played as a X/R .. or also here, haven’t studied too many OOP 3b pots though. About your questions

Why would we be donking on river on diamonds?

Ive experienced that there are a lot of checkbacks happening on my site for when flushes get in (sometimes even sets, mostly top pair though). Its an exploitative way to still charge them with weaker hands that would be calling, but are more prone to check back. I would never do this in stronger pools coming up, but think micro players arent adapting to that.

Are we? He has to call 6.12 to win 20.30 so he would need to get there about 30% of the time. T9dd would have 12 outs at best so ~25%.

I did some nodelocking and found that, granted the combo draws look a bit more nicer than their equities suggest, but others are pretty much up there

Approx. what hes betting (I assume enough non made hands, FDs, while some pairs for protection)

Assumptions to what hes calling/folding v a reraise

Want to know why it's rare? Because 3-betting pre, check/call, check/call and then donk on the river is super underbluffed. It makes 0 sense to do this line. Please remove this donking thing out of your game for now.

I didnt check call flop though, I cbet and I would argue B/X/B on such a turn card that doesnt change the board much will be perceived pretty bluffy in general (because what value are you trying to rep after X back turn where you would have mostly barreled off with all your value hands). However, I dont see people trying to bluffcatch there too much (maybe im just wise enough to never bluff OTR in such cases since I dont rep much) :D

zinom1 4 years, 9 months ago

check shove is bad because your hand doesnt need protection. X min raise, shove river maximizes call down frequency which means we get stacks in more often( get more value).

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