NL10 sb vs bb in 3bet - PLaying agressively Top2?
Posted by S0lidSnaKe
Posted by
S0lidSnaKe
posted in
Low Stakes
NL10 sb vs bb in 3bet - PLaying agressively Top2?
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10 (6 Players)
UTG: $13.42
MP: $29.76
CO: $11.32
BN: $10.20
SB: $10.00 (Hero)
BB: $20.78
MP: $29.76
CO: $11.32
BN: $10.20
SB: $10.00 (Hero)
BB: $20.78
Preflop
($0.15)
Hero is SB with
Q
K
, , ,
(Little glitch here BB 3bets 9bb) Same spot same opponent few hands after the A4s sb vs bb.
Flop
($1.90)
Q
7
K
, , ,
X/R is overplayed here? 77 and KQ is the top of my range, villain has more nutted hands than me so do I have to X/C or X/C only?
Loading 14 Comments...
Raising is perfectly fine in my book. You don't have to shove it though, I would make it like 3,60 and shove turns. But it's probably not a big deal againts a fairly large cbet.
raising 3.6 comes with 2 issues
-we almost never have FE
-it's near to half of the effective stack, spr turn will be ridiculous
What do you think about this?
We should definitely have fold equity, things like A5 are simply forced to fold as well as hands like JJ, even gutshots like AJ/AT are in an annoying spot despite good odds.
If you make it 3,60 and villain calls, the pot is 9,10 and you have 5,4 behind, that's not ridiculous to me. What exactly makes that ridiculous?
I don't like raising to 3.60. It's fancy play syndrom. You both know once you raise here there is almost no way you're not going all in and he's going to chose his play accordingly.
I don't like raising here at all. We have like 12 value hands for tbis play out of 250 combos or something and we obv can't raise all of them cos that weakens our calling range massively. So we just developing a tiny range for no good reason.
Don't think raising makes much sense with your range as you don't have nut or equity advantage and you rep very narrow. Would probably just opt to pure call, especially vs this sizing unless you know that he only uses this sizing with value, in which case shoving seems OK to stack him before the board gets too wet.
PIO results:
So, PIO cbets 68% with 2/3 sizing. I didn't allow any other sizing, PIO seems to use 1/3 size as IP almost exclusively if you allow both 1/3 size and 2/3, but I only gave IP the option to bet 2/3 for the sake of simplicity.
The picture shows the OOP strategy againts the cbet. Raise 80 is shove, raise 36 is half pot raise and raise 28 is 1/3 pot raise.
PIO thinks that the size I was advocating is a bit too large and prefers the 1/3 pot raise (roughly 2,80 in this case).
Just because we have a range disadvantage, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a raising range. In fact there are very few spots where you want to have 0% raising frequency being OOP.
Our exact hand seems to prefer raising virtually everytime and mostly with the small raise size. That said the EV difference between small raise and shove is really marginal, so I don't mind shoving if it makes life easier. Againts a smaller cbet size we probably shouldn't shove anymore.
Flushdraws like J9s/T9s/A8s etc. raise almost everytime, mostly with a small size but also shove sometimes.
What comes to having a weak calling range when we raise strong hands, PIO doesn't seem to care.
Samu Patronen How does PIO differentiate between the suits of the Kings here? I would assume shoving is more favorable with OP's combination and raising small might be better with the Kh in our hand due to blocking effect since we would be blocking his potential flush/combos draws with the Kh? Curious what you think. I am not at home to run the sim myself ;) sorry for the extra work ;)
Interesting question. I didn't save the sim unfortunately.
I mean ultimately the difference has to be small enough to not be all that interesting from a pragmatic perspective. I don't see any huge benefits one way or another, because any KQ is commited to any turn and villain is not doing any bet/folding with Kx.
Thanks for the solver solution.
I also like raising here. If you're not raising with top two pair, what are you raising with? Only your sets and your draws? You can have lots of draws here: AJ, AT, JT and, of course flush draws. So I think you have to raise with KQ.
Raise size is something I usually struggle with, so no comments on that.
Just because we have a range disadvantage, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a raising range. In fact there are very few spots where you want to have 0% raising frequency being OOP.
Can someone explain that
Does it mean that as we have a range disadvantage when we are raising we must be strong in villains eyes?
and u mean like we dont always have to potray ourselves as weak check callin repping like under pairs to K etc instead we should have a raising range even tho it looks strong because villains knows that we know we are perceived weak? But still maybe we are raising flush draws and J10 and it is fine to include this in our raising range?
It has less to do with exploitative reasons you laid out and more to do with theory. Having a range disadvantage simply means that you either have less equity with our range than your opponent does, or that you have less strong combos in your range than your opponent, depending on what one means by "range disadvantage". But you still have equity, and you still have strong combos in your range, just less than your opponent. So there's no reason to assume that you go from having a raising range to not having a raising range when you go from advantage to disadvantage. It just means that you're probably supposed to raise less, but still some.
Ur response seems similar to what i said lol
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