Need Help Playing Suited Aces
Posted by MrFalvo
Posted by
MrFalvo
posted in
Low Stakes
Need Help Playing Suited Aces
I've played nearly 25k hands in 6max 2NL in the past two weeks running pretty poorly.
After trying to look for some of my leaks I've noticed through holdem manager leak buster that I'm about -64.45 bb/100 and I'm sort of confused by what I might be doing wrong. As to this point I've mostly opened the action with every suited aces from all positions, 3bet/squeeze vs a BTN or CO open when in the SB, and 3bet/squeeze vs a CO or HJ open when on the BTN. I'm still kind of confused with how to play suited aces in the BB so thats been all over the place with either defends or 3Bets.
I'm kind of new to poker and this site in general but maybe someone can give me some tips and point out what I'm doing wrong...
Thanks
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You are overplaying suited Aces. Why do you always play them from every position? Sounds like you don't know why they are strong or weak depending on table conditions.
Post a few suited Aces hands to get feedback on how you should have played both pre & post-flop.
This is good.
Opening suited Ax from any position is perfectly fine IMO and much different from calling/3-betting them (but opening them does depend on how well/competent you will play postflop vs. said villains).
Before I would open all my suited aces from middle position or the CO, but after looking into preflop opening ranges a lot of information I found said they are profitable played from every position so that's what i started to do. What would be a better range for suited aces in 2NL? Also I usually play suited aces preflop like I would play any other hand... C bet dry boards, semi bluff flush draws or check fold a lot.
Did you know that winning midstakes players often struggle to play all suited Aces profitably from UTG? And they don't always open them. They are a maybe open only when conditions are right.
I think it very unlikely a 2NL player should always open them. Part of whether they are profitable depends on your player pool. They are not automatically profitable against all player types and in all player pools.
What table conditions do you think are more favourable to open them? What table conditions suggest an open fold?
Run some filters in HM2/PT4 (whatever you use). Select for position UTG, card holding A9s-A6s and separately A5s-A2s and select for PFR=Yes. Are you profitable? Replay some hands and post them for advice. You mention you bet FDs but do you bet BDFDs IP and OOP regardless of opponent? If Yes, then that is actually part of the problem.
Do another filter as above but for MP (and unopened before you) and then just for CO, just for BTN, just for SB. Again, are you profitable? Replay some hands and post them.
Similarly, run filters for Cold Calling suited aces by position and for 3B'in suited aces by position.
You have a lot of homework to do but with 25K hands you have a lot of info on yourself and on the player pool to help you make the right decisions for you in your pool.
I messed around with the filters and got these stats:
Open raising A2s-A5s UTG (+294.44bb/100) - 18 hands
Open raising A6s-A9s UTG (+35.71bb/100) - 28 hands
Open raising A2s-A5s MP (+25.97bb/100) - 28 hands
Open raising A6s-A9s MP (-167.19bb/100) - 32 hands
Open raising A2s-A5s CO (-154.84bb/100) - 31 hands
Open raising A6s-A9s CO (-539.00bb/100) - 23 hands
Open raising A2s-A5s BTN (+67.40bb/100) - 20 hands
Open raising A6s-A9s BTN (-200.22bb/100) - 22 hands
Open raising A2s-A5s SB (+6.25.00bb/100) - 16 hands
Open raising A6s-A9s SB (+20.71bb/100) - 10 hands
This is still a small sample size but I don't know if this may or may not be my problem with suited aces. Anyways so would you recommend that I only open suited aces A2s-A9s if its a nitty table (low vpip for most ppl) and fold at tables with many regs and loose players.
Also I found some 3 bet stats with my suited aces:
3Bet Bluffs A2s-A9s SB (-91,38bb/100) - 29 hands
3Bet Bluffs A2s-A9s BTN (-877.27bb/100) - 11 hands
This is also a small sample and I could just be running bad, but I think this may be my leak. Should i only 3bet bluff in small blind vs BTN and CO and not UTG or MP, or should I only 3bet bluff in general to nitty people. With this sample I'm kind of all over the place in terms of 3bets but I've mostly tried to only 3bet if BTN and/or CO opens.
https://www.weaktight.com/r/580ce5e6d39043c5708b470b
https://www.weaktight.com/r/580ce5d0d390439b0a8b45be
https://www.weaktight.com/r/580ce456d39043c5708b46ec
https://www.weaktight.com/r/580cdd85d39043f71c8b473e
https://www.weaktight.com/r/580cdbd1d39043195a8b4573
These are a few hand histories of opens with Axs and 3bet bluffs if you have the time it would help a lot to hear your opinion on how to play differently but anyways thanks for the help, really put in perspective about the factors that involve making decisions.
Open raise suited Aces either at Nitty table or when you have a loose (preferably losing) player in the Blinds that you will have position on post-flop. Low suited Aces are hard to play OOP because they don't make many top pairs and when they do they only have a weak kicker. IP it is easier to realise any FD or BDFD or BDSD equity as well as getting to showdown cheaper with TPNK.
3B'ing should depend on how many bluffs to value you have room for in your range. For example, when you 3B UTG it should be mainly value, maybe you only bluff with A4s and only against someone with a high fold to 3B and a big enough sample to be reliable. In SB/BB 3B vs D fold equity is still the main determinant. I would rather 3B high Aces like AJs than A3s because you are very likely to get called and be OOP at 2NL.
What about Cold Calling stats? Be more likely to Cold Call suited Aces from the BTN or BB but you need really good conditions to cold call elsewhere: big losing players, small open, nobody that loves to Squeeze behind you.
The trouble with your hand histories is they have no player stats. Oh, and post links using the hyperlink!
IMO you shouldn't really be 3-betting light in situations unless villain is opening/raising a lot of hands + they are positionally aware (such as opening more hands in LP then say EP).
Having flatting ranges with suited Ax @ the micros/LLSNL is okay, because people don't know how to exploit you and it is profitable to flat those hands vs. said villains... so now you don't need to be 3-betting as wide from the blinds. I think you can't say this is a be all and end all strat @ lower levels but it really depends on villains.
Post any hands you want others to comment on in their own separate thread and use a hyperlink to post so people can look at them easily by simply clicking.
For example,
Hand 3 as hyperlink
Pre-flop Hero is in CO with A2hh. Is D nitty and unlikely to either 3B or Call our raise? Are blinds either Nitty and likely to fold or losing players likely to pay off if you make a hand? Are blinds unlikely to 3B? Is Fold to CBet high?
Flop: Q33r no heart.
Is IP Villain unknown, Nitty, Calling Station, Aggro, Reg?
What is Villain Fold to CBet?
I'd tend to X/F A2hh and Bet A2s of the 3 suits with BDFDs but ONLY if Villain was Nitty and likely to fold his underpairs to Q and not float his broadways. Otherwise X/F all A2s.
Sample size effects here, but look at the pattern for A5s-A2s compared to A9s-A6s. Now think about why the smaller Axs tend to perform better. And think about how you can put this to use when you choose your opening and 3B ranges.
Someone told me that stuff like A2-A5s vs. A9-A6s doesn't matter that much when 3-betting they are relatively similar even if one can make more wheels/str8s.
Pio pre flop simulations suggest otherwise. Edges that are small in isolation will add up fast for spots that occur frequently, like pre flop decisions. So if there is a little bit of EV to gain by remodelling a pre flop range, it's good habit to do it, because it's easy to do.
The thing about medium/low suited aces, suited connectors, and low pairs is that they are good to have in the range to give you more post flop playability on various boards, but your range can become too weak/wide for the situation (say, when opening early) if you include all of them. If that is the case, the solution is to either:
1) Use fractions of them
2) Use the ones with best post flop value
Pio pre flop calculations tends to prefer using wheel aces over A8s-A6s. If you're up against a decent ace A9+, the pair-value of hitting your kicker is pretty much the same, but the suited wheel aces have straight/flush potential in addition.
Of course you would prefer A8s over A5s when you're up against specifically 77-55, but those matchups are rarer than running into a better Ax or a pair >77, in which case A5s will perform better. The straight potential of the wheel aces seems to be worth a lot, and A5s-A4s pop up frequently in Pio's pre flop ranges.
Alan Jackson's 6M+ hand sample shows winning midstakes regs losing with A6s-A9s UTG. So not just PIO sims but also real world results support Zen's assertion. BTW Winning regs play suited Aces only about half the time from UTG. And their tables for the most part would be way Nittier than the average 2NL table. At 2NL any UTG opening frequency of suited Aces should probably be way less than half.
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