Must fold KK pre here? (NL25 Zoom, 200bb)
Posted by TimberSK
Posted by
TimberSK
posted in
Low Stakes
Must fold KK pre here? (NL25 Zoom, 200bb)
BN: $35.70
SB: $26.95
BB: $50.66
UTG: $48.35 (Hero)
HJ: $26.56
CO: $27.10
SB: $26.95
BB: $50.66
UTG: $48.35 (Hero)
HJ: $26.56
CO: $27.10
Readless, no hands on BB
Preflop
($0.35)
(6 Players)
Hero was dealt
K
K
Hero raises to $0.75, HJ calls $0.75, CO folds, BN folds, SB folds, BB raises to $3, Hero raises to $6.70, HJ folds, BB raises to $50.66, and is all in, Hero calls $41.65, and is all in
Hero raises to $0.75, HJ calls $0.75, CO folds, BN folds, SB folds, BB raises to $3, Hero raises to $6.70, HJ folds, BB raises to $50.66, and is all in, Hero calls $41.65, and is all in
Against KK+,AKs we have a mere 32%, against KK+,AKs,AKo we have 47% and then there is the possibility he does this with nothing but AA. Having played mainly SNGs for the last months I was not able to fold this, but looking at it now, readless my feeling is I should have, especially given I was UTG and we were 200bb deep.
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Must fold in what context?
If you only 4-bet KK-AA this deep you can surely fold now because no hand can jam for 195bb profitably. If you 4-bet much wider here, it must be because you know that he and/or the player pool is squeezing wide here.
I am new to the player pool, thus my question. Still, your answer has already helped.
If you want to fold to a jam, there is little point in 4-betting in the first place.
That doesn't mean I'd love doing it.
This only holds when villain never calls 4bets and always plays raise or fold against the 4bet and always 5Bjams and never bluffs. But saying if you want to fold to a 5B jam there is no point in 4Betting is just completely untrue, there is huge merit to 4B-etting here to play against his calling + folding range and not flat to induce the other dude to come around and play multi-way OOP instead of HU IP, and then when facing a 5B Jam 200bb deep start considering folding very very much.
Guessing he had aces, since you wouldn't be posting this if you won.
But this isn't 2004, people do play AK and even QQ this way a fair amount of the time.
Reload!
I'd just flat his squeeze pre. Reason being that I think a UTG 4bet in that spot is perceived ultrastrong at these stakes and that you have no idea how he tends to play back and what to do vs it. Additionally your hand is well disguised postflop and allows him to make a lot more mistakes with a wider range. That he stacks off pre 200BBs deep with QQ or AK probably won't happen all that often without any history. Sure, the potential overcaller makes it less attractive but I feel like our position and hand strength is good enough to outweigh this downside.
As played, I don't mind either option. They're probably reasonably close whereas stacking off introduces a ton of variance. The fact that he makes that gigantic of an overbet shove kinda makes me discount AA a little bit cause I'd expect him to rather 5bet smallish to induce bad peels with an almost invulnerable hand. That said, I still think it's fairly rare for him to ship anything but KK+ here so I don't think folding is terrible and - if at all - only a slight mistake.
Thanks all of you! He did show AA and without any history I would like to see myself fold in this exact situation in the future.
then pls call the sqz!
Well, Getready2rokk, opinions on this seem to diverge, don't they? Above
post by R G sounds very reasonable to me. We can still 4bet-fold
against unknown, being UTG and 200bb deep on NL25 Zoom. That said, I
feel I want to mix it up about 50/50 maybe. You still think you want to
call 100%?
sure, i just think that a squeeze in that spot 200bb deep is pretty polarized, therefore i expect him to fold or 5bet/shove vs a 4bet. Because of this i would 4bet when i have the dynamic (so that he can showup w AK,QQ, bluffs), if not then i would just smooth call (Hellmuth style ^^) to keep his range wide as possible.
We can call a 5B this deep and play IP almost always when it's a normal-ish size. I think flatting the squeeze is far from the best play for very obvious multiway OOP big pot reasons. Don't get results oriented just because this villain decided to 5B overshove this time.
i call here every day never fold KK to noone
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