Lucid GTO/Poker Scientist vs GTO+
Posted by Ronnymacdonald
Posted by
Ronnymacdonald
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Low Stakes
Lucid GTO/Poker Scientist vs GTO+
Within GTO+, there is an option to play against the solution (see some of Steve Paul's vids for examples). However, I see some coaches use training sites like Lucid GTO or Poker Scientist to practice certain solved spots. My question is, are the monthly fees of these trainers worth it when you can buy GTO+ one time and play against custom solutions that you ran yourself? I'm on my free trial of Lucid GTO and I don't see how you couldn't do the same drills in GTO+.
P.S. I'm not looking to shill GTO+, but I'd rather not pay more money than necessary.
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The analysis system in GTO+ is a bit cluncky and they made a few poor design decisions that might seem small but is actual very important. Therefore I prefer Pio interface together with Jesolver as the engine and some GTO trainer (I made my own but the two commercial ones seems fine).
GTO+ is probably better for just playing the solution than a Pio and trainer combo, but is worse when it comes to analysis. Maybe using GTO+ as the trainer and Pio for analysis is the best compromise?
I like the 6max/ Inner pack on GTO sensei and in Simple GTO trainer for single raised pots. It takes so much time to solve that large simulations that the extra convenience is worth it to me. For 3bet and 4bet pots I only play my own simulations and not mixing in cloud
The sites you mention mostly offer the service that they have ran sims on basically any spot in the gametree (preflop/postflop) that you can you use in realtime (For analysis or training) in combination with a well designed interface.
So you could actually do most postflop stuff with GTO+ as well. But dont underestimate the time and PC-ressources you will need to invest to get even close to this kind of library with GTO+
Hi RaoulFlush can you please elaborate on the resources side? 6 cores with 16gb and nvme would do it?
Got the same setup...that is fine.
But it will still take a lot of time, esp if we want to solve SRP with large ranges over a big amount of subsets with a large amount of sizings.
And dont forget how many scenarios we have to solve: like SRP, 3bp, 4bp and that for all positions vs all positions if we want to have a functionality like the sites you mentioned....
Aroma It's true that for SRP and wide ranges (e.g. BU vs. BB) that's gonna take a while. Keep in mind that for 3-bet and 4-bet pots (where ranges are narrow and the stack-to-pot ratio is so low that the game tree becomes hugely simplified), calculation time is hugely reduced.
Poker Scientist costs like 49€ each month right? That's not far off the price you pay for GTO+ in total (GTO+ comes for $75). It may even make sense to get GTO+ und try out if your satisfied with the computation time. If not, you can still switch to online libraries. Given that you might be fine with GTO+, this approach may save you quite some money.
Many thanks fellas! I have Flopzilla pro so I incline towards GTO+ for the time being, I am not very familiar with solvers but paying 75$ as a one off until I get used to the solver world doesnt seem a bad deal to me. I was already able to improve some leaks in my game by checking the HM3 db, grouping various hand strenghts etc. but I would like to deep dive into it and see specific spots.
I bought pokerscientist and the training loads way too slow. I will not be renewing my subscription. Going with GTO+ next
Please have a look at my HH: https://www.runitonce.com/nlhe/do-you-shove-here/
Are you sure it's the software and not on your end? Henry Lister uses Poker Scientist in a lot of his newer videos and it looks smooth and seamless.
ModernGrinder yeah, GTOWizard is much faster than Scientist
How does Lucid GTO compare to Poker Scientist?
As far as Lucid GTO vs Poker Scientist: I've looked into this pretty heavily now and it seems as if Poker Scientist is about as cutting edge as it gets. Thing is that the full version costs over $100/usd per month. Lucid's full version is $60/usd per month. In any event, both of these trainers look to be the best on the market.
Ok, so Poker Scientist is a little rich for my blood right at this moment but Lucid is like the perfect price for what it offers. Lucid also gives you a four day, fully functional, free trial. I downloaded it before and ...I can't put it down. That + Peter Clarke's new video from today and I'm all set here for right now.
Spent more time on this: It looks (I have questions up on 2p2 in the lucid thread) like you can only do the cloud solves right now unless you're using PIO. Support for GTO+ and other solvers should be any time now but as of now ...you can only train against the presolved sims which only really include sb vs bb and bb vs btn type spots. I really hope they get on this soon because for $60/mo, their pro sub includes a browser, a PIO lite solver, and the ability to import hand histories. It's phenomenal.
I also broke down and bought a month to Poker Scientists trainer. I can't do the trainer + the gameplan right now but it's nice to know that I can upgrade. These GTO trainers are already helping me a ton. In addition to all of this, I upgraded to Elite here again. I'll be spending a lot of time working with these different tools and the content here as I continue to progress and put in volume. These next gen, more advanced solvers and trainers are just beyond gorgeous and addictive.
This is just the last few days of 10z since I've been studying the videos here and working heavily with solvers. As well as studying a lot of the foundational math that I never bothered to before.
Poker Scientist Straight Flush
I tried all of these different trainers out extensively again and for the price and my needs right now, Poker Scientist is best. I thank Henry Lister for using it in his videos or else I never would have known about it.
I upgraded to the bundle of the trainer + gameplan. It's like $88/usd month in the end and very, very much worth it. I've sent in some bug reports already and they're immediately addressed/fixed. The support team is readily available and the quality of the site - for a browser based trainer - is pretty sick.
What exactly is this gameplan-bundle?
When it comes to PS, you can buy the trainer, the gameplan, or both together and they do synchronize. It's basically an online trainer/solver you can use on any platform or device. Buying both together is definitely the way to go and a total value. As said, it cost me $88/usd per month and it's 75euros per month for the bundle.
Like, here I would have been afraid of the flush but I know that if I don't shove after setting up a near 1:1 SPR for the river with THIS hand, I'm losing a ton of value. It's a huge blunder to not shove and the trainer has been teaching me that.
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software - http://drivehud.com
NL Holdem 0.1(BB)
HJ ($10) [VPIP: 17% | PFR: 15.1% | AGG: 16.7% | Hands: 96]
CO ($6.03) [VPIP: 39.8% | PFR: 14.5% | AGG: 3.2% | Hands: 150]
BTN ($10.32) [VPIP: 9.3% | PFR: 5.9% | AGG: 40% | Hands: 226]
HERO ($10.32)
BB ($22.08) [VPIP: 23.8% | PFR: 16.7% | AGG: 75% | Hands: 81]
UTG ($11.52) [VPIP: 17% | PFR: 15.5% | AGG: 27% | Flop Agg: 27.8% | Turn Agg: 23.5% | River Agg: 30% | 3-Bet: 8.4% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1096]
Dealt to Hero: Ah Ac
UTG Raises To $0.25, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, HERO Raises To $1.05, BB Folds, UTG Calls $0.80
Hero SPR on Flop: [4.21 effective]
Flop ($2.20): 9h Kc 3h
HERO Bets $0.72 (Rem. Stack: $8.55), UTG Calls $0.72 (Rem. Stack: $9.75)
Turn ($3.64): 9h Kc 3h 2h
HERO Bets $1.87 (Rem. Stack: $6.68), UTG Calls $1.87 (Rem. Stack: $7.88)
River ($7.38): 9h Kc 3h 2h As
HERO Bets $6.68 (allin), UTG Calls $6.68 (Rem. Stack: $1.20)
UTG shows: Ks Ad
HERO wins: $19.49
Same thing: Have to bluff river here BTN vs SB in a SRP...
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software - http://drivehud.com
NL Holdem 0.1(BB)
UTG ($12.18) [VPIP: 9.1% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 48]
HJ ($16.79) [VPIP: 5% | PFR: 5% | AGG: 100% | Hands: 109]
CO ($9.94) [VPIP: 4.8% | PFR: 4.8% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 36]
HERO ($10)
SB ($24.77) [VPIP: 16.7% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Flop Agg: 0% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 25% | Hands: 12]
BB ($10) [VPIP: 8% | PFR: 4.5% | AGG: 44.4% | Hands: 226]
Dealt to Hero: Kh Ts
UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Raises To $0.30, SB Calls $0.25, BB Folds
Hero SPR on Flop: [13.86 effective]
Flop ($0.70): 7s 2c Qd
SB Checks, HERO Bets $0.50 (Rem. Stack: $9.20), SB Calls $0.50 (Rem. Stack: $23.97)
Turn ($1.70): 7s 2c Qd 9s
SB Checks, HERO Checks
River ($1.70): 7s 2c Qd 9s 5h
SB Checks, HERO Bets $1.24 (Rem. Stack: $7.96), SB Calls $1.24 (Rem. Stack: $22.73)
SB shows: Td Th
SB wins: $3.87
Ok ,so - Thanks to this video here by Henry Lister:
https://www.runitonce.com/poker-training/videos/henry-lister-nlhe-new-solver-tool-poker-scientist/
...I now understand how to use the preflop solver. Guys - this is absolutely amazing. You would have to spend a fortune with any other product to get both preflop and postflop solves like this, and it's basically connected to a cloud server.
To be able to go down the entire gametree from preflop to river, using any position vs any position ranges, is just incredible.
And then we're going to be able to select a flop, all sorts of subsets, etc and take it from there:
you can try GTO wizard, personal i prefer this than PS
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