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Live 5/10 at Commerce 200 bbs deep

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Posted by posted in High Stakes

Live 5/10 at Commerce 200 bbs deep

I had sat down at the table pretty recently, maybe played 2-3 orbits. Villain is a young guy wearing headphones, has been opening a lot pre-flop, my guess is he's pretty good but I don't really have much information yet. In one of my first hands at the table I stacked him for 150 bbs after 3betting 97s vs his CO open. I flopped a flush draw, hit the flush on the turn and held up against his flopped set of tens (he called flop and shoved over my turn bet). So he'll undoubtedly have that hand on his mind, but I haven't played any other notable hands so far.

He opens to 35 in early position, I 3bet AKo to 105 in late position, he 4bets to 250 (eff. stacks 1800). I call.

Flop (515) JT3r
He bets 300, I call.

Turn (1115) JT3-9
He checks, I bet 275, he calls.

River (1665) JT3-9-6
He checks, I shove 975.

I wasn't sure of the best play at any decision point in the hand. I decided to 3bet because he was opening a lot and I had already showed a 3bet bluff. Once he 4bet I wasn't sure between 5betting or flatting. Even though I had 3bet bluffed already, I didn't think he'd go too crazy staking off after opening UTG.

On the flop I felt like it was a good flop for my range, I have good equity, and some showdown value, so I called (as I would often do with JJ or TT). I don't think folding is an option, but maybe I could raise? Once he checked the turn I was again torn between betting or checking and trying to get to showdown. I think my line looks very credible and it's hard for him to put me on a bluff, but it's not so clear which better hands I can fold out. Stack sizes are awkward as well, with about 1100 in the pot and 1300 back. I decided to bet small on the turn to set up a river shove, but after thinking about it more I don't think this makes sense unless I think I can make him fold an overpair at least some of the time. Given that I just showed down a light 3bet, that was probably too ambitious. Even though he shouldn't really take much from me 3betting 97s vs his CO open early on, the fact that it ended up being a huge pot will probably cause him to read a lot into it.

Thoughts on any street appreciated.

9 Comments

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Zachary Freeman 12 years, 1 month ago
Unless he is really loose his EP range is probably going to contain lots of hands that can call a 3bet and won't contain a lot of hands that are too weak to call, which means his 4bet range will contain few bluffs. Accordingly I would fold to the 4bet pre even with the history provided.
As played pre, on flop I would fold as well given if he has widened his value 4bet range pre he will hit this flop hard.

As played on flop, on turn I would check> jam>bet small. He only has 1PSB left and is prob just checking to fold given most of his value hands will just jam since stacks aren't deep enough to make a cr attractive. If he gave up on turn he won't bluff river often so, if he bets you can save your stack because he prob was trapping turn. But if he checks you can jam now that its pretty clear he gave up. Jamming is just to fold out weak pairs he may have turned or rivered. Also you rep a wider range and a range with SD value by checking turn.

Elgatonegro99 12 years, 1 month ago

I like making it 550 preflop and calling it off. As played, checking back turn and betting river if checked to would be my line vs this villain. I think this board is way too wet to bet turn.
DirtyD 12 years, 1 month ago
FWIW I saw a lot of young guys opening wide in early position, I guess because the tables were pretty passive and they could get away with it. I don't know exactly how wide this guy is opening, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's 20%+.
Sean Lefort 12 years, 1 month ago
"but it's not so clear which better hands I can fold out."

The turn seems like its not a bad spot for your range vs. his range and thus you might feel compelled to turn hands into bluffs like this but the SPR is so shallow with so many hands in each range containing significant equity that I think you have to chk turn with AK/AQ. Of course, that leaves us basically never bluffing. Thus, against a lot of players I would check my entire range on the turn and then leave myself with lots of river options. (ie. we can overbet jam if chkd to, we can jam if he bets small, we can bet small if he chks, etc..)
Ugur Ozgur Secılmıs 12 years ago
We should plan our hand. He open raises 7 players left to act and i consider it would be a very tight range. What do we expect by 3betting? Is he going to call our 3bet loose enough? Is he capable of 4bet bluffing a lot? 3betting EP raise is very respectful even u 3bet with SC before and in that spot he didint 4bet your button 3bet with TT. So do u expect he is going to call your 3bet with AQ? If we are 250bb+++ deep i even feel comfortable 3betting with AJ cuz he is going to call a lot but 180bb deep leads me into dark tunnel. So i would rather just calling preflop. Now lets consider we did 3bet and what should we do? We need at least %28 equity to make this call profitable vs AK,QQ+++ in worst scenario. Whenever i calculated in poker cruncher AKo vs AK,QQ+++ it gives me %33 when its only deal to flop (cuz we should usually consider folding cbet unimprvd). Calling cbet on JT3 mantodry we have enough good pot odds. But on the turn and river i think we dont have enough chips to make him fold. U divided your remaning stack into two chunks of 275 and 975 which is nice but it looks like he is going to never fold on river after putting his half of stack. Last of all let me remind you he slow played his top set before this hand in the same way.
DirtyD 12 years ago
Based on how often he was opening and my stereotypical reads of young players in LA and general live poker spider sense, I didn't expect him to be playing especially tight or straightforward in early position. The previous hand where he had a set was a much different situation, but sure, he's capable of slow-playing some strong hands. I do agree that we didn't have enough left to try to force him to make a big fold.

He ended up calling the river with QJs, which was pretty surprising. At 180 bbs I think most people, if they don't want to fold this to a 3bet, would call. I don't necessarily think 4betting this hand is bad but it's a little unusual. If I knew he was 4betting hands like this I would probably 5bet/call it off with AK. If he's not going to fold QJ on the river, my bluff is probably hopeless. Actually QJ may be a better hand for him to call with than KK, since both are mostly bluff-catchers at that point and QJ blocks JJ and KQ, but in hindsight I just don't think I was getting him off of much.

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