Live 2/3 - AKo OTB with lots of preflop action--what to do?
Posted by inkoso
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inkoso
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Live 2/3 - AKo OTB with lots of preflop action--what to do?
Live 2/3 my stack is about 350ish.
UTG opens to 10, which is small for the table's usual 15+ dollar open, Two to his left 3bets to 30 (again small raise for the table since a usual 3b will be to around 50), HJ and CO cold call the 30. I look down at AKo.
Pretty confused about what to do in this spot, and its made more confusing by the small bet sizing. Some people will open to 30 at this casino, so when HJ (who is a calling station) calls, and CO call, i dont think they're overtly strong, and moreso have hands they 'want to see a flop with'. CO is an older man who pretty much limp calls anything.
Had the action gone: UTG open 15, MP2 3b to 50, and HJ and CO both call 50, i'd feel a lot better about this spot, but the small sizing makes it weird because it widens HJ and CO range quite a bit.
I elect to 4b here on the button; I raise to 150 hoping to go heads up to a flop, or better yet, take it down preflop.
Folds to 3bettor who calls, HJ calls, CO folds. 3 ways to the flop.
What are your thoughts on this 4b? I think calling sucks because we give SB and BB a free ticket to call pretty much, and then we play AKo in a 6 or 7 ways, which isnt ideal. I think AKs you could make the case for calling here since it plays much better postflop, but offsuit i feel we need to thin out the field. Although UTG opens, he's a rec player meaning his 10 dollar raise means he's probably decently weak, and he's not really thinking about his position and what not.
On to the flop
Flop comes Q33r - pot $490
MP2 checks, HJ checks, and now what do i do here?
This is a really hard spot for me, I cant imagine MP2 has a small pair, so his range is probably TT+, AK, AQs? (AK and AQs are very low probability holdings IMO, but possibly worth considering). AA and KK he'd likely jam pre, since he isn't playing very deep, and we also block AA/KK. HJ can have lots of hands seeing as he's a station and "was getting priced in", but likely holdings are smaller pocket pairs or maybe suited aces?
Do i jam here for my remaining 200 repping the overpair/queens? I can't see getting both to fold on this particular flop--i have no 3's in my range, and even though my likely holdings would be AA/KK/QQ hands like JJ could find a call because 'i put you on AK'. On such a dry board i would probably check Aces and Kings a decent amount here too.
Really curious for some input here both preflop and postflop.
Thanks
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I'm really curious about what people think here because I've just spent a week playing at the star in Sydney and this type of dynamic is heaps common and confusing.
Giving up seems weak, spazzing off a stack seems spewy. Betting and hoping to take it down or spike an A or K later seems like what I'd do most of the time. I feel like a shove would look weaker and yeah you'd get called by JJ TT even 88 because "I put u on ak"
yeah i dont know, its quite awkward.
folding is wrong, calling is too passive and lets people in far too cheap and AKo isn't a hand i want to have playing multiway. Shoving for 350 here seems like we are strictly getting called by Queens, kings, aces.
I'm only really worried about the original 3bettor having a real hand based on the players, so if we can get the dead money a lot, it should be alright to sometimes run into queens?
Calling is bad, 4-betting the size you took is awkward as well. I'd say, the choice is between folding and shoving. With the given dead money of almost one third of your stack, shoving should be the right play.
What does it matter?
I have no clue, why it should be possible to delete a comment that got replies, but this guy obv. thought it was a good idea to do so (discussing via PM with me instead). That said, my last comment now lost it's context, so ignore it.
No, but why do we need 100%? Will you be taken your cards away, once you shoved and get called?! :-D
The most important thing: It depends a lot on the original 3bettor. Does he 3bet pre (in this position) with all sorts of stuff, with a range like [AQ+, TT+], or only with [AA,KK,AK]? What is his stack size, did he cover you? You have to know your opponent in this situation.
CO should never have AA or KK, and HJ is a calling station, so you are way ahead of their range. Without further information I would also assume that UTGs range is not very strong.
Therefore: If the 3bettor is not too nitty, shoving is the most +ev play here. There is nothing wrong by turning AK pre into a semibluff.
When you think the 3bettor is nitty but straight forward (only 5bets AA or KK after your 4bet) you can 4bet to something like 80,- and fold to a shove (I like this play a lot against many live players). So you generate a 1SPR 4way pot postflop that is very profitable for you. But dont assume you are able to bluff postflop again.
Calling is still better as folding, but you create a 4way 3SPR pot that can be very awkward with AK. Against a good player you are very likely behind when you hit an A or a K and stacks go in.
Some things to consider:
1) What are the stack sizes of the players? Do you have everyone covered? Do you have the person who 3Bet MP2 covered?
2) How much history do you have with these players? Are they random people you've only seen play a few dozen hands over an hour or so? Or are they regulars you have history with? This can help you think in terms of their 3BET and Calling ranges.
3)Have you seen MP2 3Bet or open raise without following through with continuation bets on the flop before? The standard play is for the opener or the 3Bettor to make a continuation bet on the flop. When someone decides to do the non-standard play ask yourself "Why?" If this is a good player I would have alarm bells going off that they might be trapping me by choosing to check vs. C-bet on the flop.
4) I like your 4-betting if you plan is to get head's up with MP2 and are willing to commit your stack in this hand. You must, absolutely must, have a plan for what you will do for the rest of the hand. You should already be thinking what you will do if MP2 checks or continuation bets. Like a previous reply pointed out this plan should be based on your read of the player's 3Bet range.
5) I wouldn't advise just jamming pre-flop as this just allows the players to play perfectly against you by only calling you with AA, KK, and maybe QQ. Depending on how loose the game is people may call a pre-flop shove with JJ.
6) The option of calling with AKo on the button isn't the worst option. If everyone checks, the flop and you check behind you may get a free card on the turn to hit your A or K. In your example I really doubt that the HJ has a premium pair and just called with you still to act behind. I've seen very good tournament players cold call 3bets with players left behind with AA's or KK's, with the hope that an aggressive player left to act behind them will 4-bet and then they can do a 5-bet shove. This is an advance play and most inexperienced players would just 4-bet instead of trying to induce someone to 4 bet behind them.
7) Another advantage of just calling on the flop is that you may induce the 3-bettor to bluff with a hand that you dominate ( AQ, AJ, KQ, etc. ). Depending on the flop texture (especially if a Q didn't hit) you could call a small bet on the flop (float) with the intention of trying to bluff them on the turn as your stack to pot ratio wouldn't have you as committed to the hand as if you would be when you 4-bet pre-flop. Even with the Q on the flop and the 3-bettor checking the flop to you are in the best position to take a stab at the pot on either the flop or the turn.
I dont have much history w/ MP2 as far as i remember, the thing is here since UTG raised to such a small amount, and MP2 3bets to a smaller amount, i think his range is wider than the standard table 15 open, 45-55 dollar 3bet, so i think MP2 3bet range can be wider here with the smaller sizing.
stack sizes: i think i had everyone covered except HJ calling station.
My plan was to go heads up with MP2 and cbet jam most flops given our SPR gives just about that as the only option, but when calling station gets in there, i dont think it works as well. What would be the plan given my 4bet here?
Jamming pre initially sounded terrible to me, because only better is calling, but given we block AA and KK, we can probably get JJ to fold almost always at this stake, and QQ still has a tough choice. I think it could be worth exploring a jam here because the chance we pick up the dead money.
Just calling AKo seems like lighting money on fire, just because we have no other option but to make a king or an A, suited i would definitely lean to calling.
very awkward spot with so many options here.
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