link for alex "bugs articles"
Posted by vanity02
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vanity02
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link for alex "bugs articles"
http://en.donkr.com/Forum/optimal-3-bet-4-bet-5-bet-strategies-in-nlhe-6-max---part-1-533561
postflop gto
http://en.donkr.com/forum/optimal-postflop-play-in-nlhe-6-max---part-1-533568
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http://en.donkr.com/profile/discussions/Bugs
One of my coaches once told me that he plays a GTO style only when facing a tough opponent hu and switches to exploitative once he finds an area of weakness. Which makes sense. Gluck probably going to take a while to absorb, it's about as thick as a book lol
But let's say we 4bet QQ+ AK for value planning to always call a 5bet (which is supposed to be optimal based on the 3bet sizing of villain that makes us obligated to defend a certain % of the time to not being exploited) and that villain only 3bets AA and KK. I don't get how our play is optimal in that scenario.
Any help would be appreciated, thanks
If the villain 3 bets AA KK only you can safely fold any times he calls or 4 bets and keep 3 betting him any 2 cards which wouldnt be optimal
You always 3 bet 4 bet 5 bet allin or flat QQ+Ak for value, and villain should defend certain ammount of times so you dont get to do that with any 2 cards you are dealt
In case you are called you need to have some bluff 4 bets included in your range so he dont get to defend versus you with any 2 cards, and 5 bet is same though for 5 bet allin you are suppose to have mostly value hands range and some lil percentage off bluffs that would cover lower range of villains allin in 5 bet with certain equity
All that is simulation of perfect conditions not reality, try to understand it from article and reread it, because you will know how to use 3-4 betting succesfully against various players depending on their style and stats, using perfect condicions simulation and adjusting it to specific opponent ( 3 betting much more or less depending opponent, doing it more if he is tight and less 4 betting 5 betting such opponent, and versus loose wide range opponent you can widen your 4=5 bet range )
I know see that you need to play exploitative instead to avoid being exploited in some cases. I don't think that's true in every aspects of the game but I might be wrong (let's say you vbet river with a polarized range against a bluff catching range with the right frequency based on your bet sizing).
I think understanding these articles clearly will help me to know the optimal play and adjust to any villain based on what I know is optimal in order to change my strategy to better exploit him.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33/books-publications/expert-heads-up-no-limit-holdem-v-1-optimal-exploitive-strategies-will-tipton-1281938/
Rigorous, but accessible. He does some simulations that aren't found anywhere else (he wrote his own software for that).
If you are 4 bet bluffing against a guy who never bluffs, then he isnt playing GTO so that means you cant either.
The whole point of GTO is to understand where the balance point is. If you know what your opponent "should" be doing and what his range "should be" then you can adjust from GTO to be explotive, because you know he never 3bet bluffs and only 3bets AA and KK, you can then fold KK to a 3bet.
If a guy dosent 3bet bluff but 3bets a wider range for value, and stacks off with most of that range, you can then 4bet a slightly wider value range than is GTO, but you cant bluff because he wont fold the required amount for your bluff to work.
GTO, in practice, is pointless. If you were in a game so tough that you had to play GTO, run away as fast as you can because both players will, in the long run, do no more than break even.
If you know what your opponent should do from a GTO point of view, then you are in a better position to exploit them. If your opponent 3bets too many bluffs and you notice this over time, then you can counter that by putting in more 4 bet bluffs. GTO just gives you an idea of where the theoretical balance point is and anyone who isnt playing close to GTO can be exploited.. the trick is figuring out how, but if you compare a GTO range to your opponents actual range, then you can more easily see what it is he is doing wrong and what you should do to gain from that.
I think a lot of people think that its a cookie cutter strategy that can be applied to anyone, when infact its more of a theoretical concept. That said, as opponents get better they get closer and closer to GTO, because they are preventing their opponents from exploting them and at the same time their opponents are making adjustments to prevent them from being exploited. Which is why winrates drop the higher the stakes you play.
So really you have to turn this on its head, rather than trying to play GTO, try and figure how far off GTO your opponents are playing and then make adjustments.
So basically I can play GTO and print of someone playing non GTO, eg if I protect my opening range with proper 4bet frequencies then everytime they try and exploit me by 3bet bluffing a hand that wouldn't fall in their GTO range, I am printing money, as they are trying to exploit the unexploitable.
My question was that if I am defending my opening range with GTO 4bet frequencies then it seems to me that I can be exploited, by someone who just doesn't 3bet bluff. But that seems counterintuitve, because the whole point of playing GTO frequencies is that they can't be exploited. So would appreciate someone clearing it up.
But I am still confused, because lets simplify it, to us playing GTO, and not adjusting to anything, and him playing GTO in all spots, apart from never 3bet bluffing the CO. We lose money to him everytime we 4bet bluff him after he 3bets us from the CO, but in all other spots we breakeven (I don't think him never 3bet bluffing the CO affects his other frequencies). So we are losing money. But with GTO we can't lose money. Sorry I am confused and would appreciate someone clearing this up, thanks. also semi drunk so sorry for typos
GTO is a bit like this. You write down exactly how you play poker, then you hand me that piece of paper, I read it and then write down exactly how I intend to play against you. I hand you the paper pack, you read my strategy and then write down all the adjustments that you intend to make based on how I play. You then hand the paper back to me I re-read your new strategy and make adjustments to mine, write then down and hand it back. At some point we will end up with a strategy that neither of us can improve upon. That is GTO. Our winrates are zero because you wont let me use a strategy that causes you to loose and vise versa.
A GTO strategy is a strategy pair, it takes two people to do it, if I deviate from GTO then I can exploit you but at the same time I create a weakness somewhere else that you can also exploit... but you have to spot the weakness. If you dont spot it then GTO wont spot it for you.
GTO isnt something that you necessarily want to do, its just something that you want to understand.
If you have a good understanding of GTO then you can compare your opponents strategy to GTO and that will show you where all his leaks are.. and then you deviate away from GTO to exploit it.
The reason top players play close to a GTO style is that if you are playing against someone like Durrr or Mr Galfond, then if you have leaks, they will spot them and adjust so you sacrifice your winrate and play close to GTO just to be in the game. I dont know how Phil Galfond compares to Durrr, but I would guess that there is very little profit to be had by either of them in a game. In theory, if they both play perfectly then their winrates are both zero against each other. In a 6 max game, Phil isnt making money off Durrr or vise versa the money is coming from the other people at the table.
Durrr is obviously a famous example and a player known for his manic moves at the table, but I have heard stories about him where he plays Nits in tournaments and instead of 3betting 4 betting and shoving rivers and so on, he is just sat there folding because thats the way to exploit someone who is overly tight, he isnt sat there thinking, "this guy only ever 3bets AA / KK , I have A5s so Id better 4 bet to put some bluffs in my range otherwise he wont call if I raise."
EG, In a basic game of Rock paper scissiors, the GTO strat is clearly choose 33% of each at random. No matter what my opponent does, this strategy cannot result in me losing EV wise. At worst I can break even.
I don't think this is a fluke of the way rock paper scissors is set up. I am pretty certain when i say that GTO strategy cannot lose no matter what counter strategy our opponent tries to enact.
GTO plays are constructed based on ranges and not "oh if I play this this set pattern I'm never exploitable".
So the best questions to ask yourself is, What is his 3bet range? Does he fold to 4bets?(if he is then he has bluffs in his 3betting range) Guestimate his 5betting value range and does he ever 5bet bluff? Is villain a tough player or easy player? Now you ask yourself the most important question, is playing GTO better or exploiting him based on what I know about his 3/4/5 betting ranges?
Just remember as long as you know his value range and that he has bluffs, you can construct a GTO strategy vs that opponent. If he doesn't have any bluffs, taking the exploitative approach is probably best.
I think a lot of people in this thread seem to be under the misconception that you can exploit a true GTO gameplan, and by it's very definition, you can't.
Unfortunately, noone will play true GTO for a long time if ever.
It seems that everything is centred around raising preflop and very little about what GT says about calling.
http://en.donkr.com/profile/discussions/Bugs
first creates optimum attack defence preflop 3-4-5 betting with no calling in playing pair, in later articles it makes calling range as well ~ that includes QQ AK, read, is good articles
flating in position u can see in ~ on a glance i see it here,
http://en.donkr.com/forum/optimal-3-bet-4-bet-5-bet-strategies-in-nlhe-6-max---part-7-533567
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