KK in tough spots Q9xxx vs UTG
Posted by friedpie
Posted by
friedpie
posted in
Low Stakes
KK in tough spots Q9xxx vs UTG
BN: $31.40
SB: $36.47
BB: $25.85 (Hero)
UTG: $29.88
HJ: $25
CO: $25.23
SB: $36.47
BB: $25.85 (Hero)
UTG: $29.88
HJ: $25
CO: $25.23
Villian appears to be a weakish straight forward regular.
21/15/1.1% 4B-R
UTG open: 20%
UTG call 3bet: 40%
W@SD 63%
WWSF 45%
21/15/1.1% 4B-R
UTG open: 20%
UTG call 3bet: 40%
W@SD 63%
WWSF 45%
Preflop
($0.35)
(6 Players)
Hero was dealt
K
K
UTG raises to $0.52, HJ folds, CO folds, BN folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $2, UTG calls $1.48
UTG raises to $0.52, HJ folds, CO folds, BN folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $2, UTG calls $1.48
Flop
($4.35)
6
Q
9
(2 Players)
Hero checks,
UTG bets $2,
Hero calls $2
I gave him a tight range of 77-QQ, AQ+, KQs+ and I block most of his KQ and AK combos.
Against that range I don't think I am getting value from much except AQ so I decided to check-call.
Against that range I don't think I am getting value from much except AQ so I decided to check-call.
Turn
($8.35)
6
Q
9
3
(2 Players)
Hero checks,
UTG bets $4,
Hero calls $4
I do not expect him to barrel very wide on the turn so this bet worrys me.
I think he would still bet AcQx combos.
I am still losing to QQ/99 and any flushes he now has.
He would check back JJ and some other AQ combos.
I am not sure how he would play his non flush AK combos.
This doesn't leave much in his range.
I think he would still bet AcQx combos.
I am still losing to QQ/99 and any flushes he now has.
He would check back JJ and some other AQ combos.
I am not sure how he would play his non flush AK combos.
This doesn't leave much in his range.
River
($16.35)
6
Q
9
3
2
(2 Players)
Hero checks,
UTG bets $8.25
The river changes nothing and now I think I am beat.
I don't think he would valuebet AQ this thin given the action but it's still possibly.
With his average WWSF and high won @ showdown I think he has a very strong hand here a lot but it's hard to think what apart from QQ/99.
I am not sure if it makes his hand look stronger that he chooses a half pot betsize instead of a shove.
Is this an easy fold or crying call?
I don't think he would valuebet AQ this thin given the action but it's still possibly.
With his average WWSF and high won @ showdown I think he has a very strong hand here a lot but it's hard to think what apart from QQ/99.
I am not sure if it makes his hand look stronger that he chooses a half pot betsize instead of a shove.
Is this an easy fold or crying call?
Loading 16 Comments...
How would we play against a much better regular if we give him a similiar range?
i would call u underreped ur hand strongly who thinks ur range is kk after ur 3 checks? given the pot odds 3:1 i think we come out ahead we should be good at least 33% of the time given that u played ur hand likeJJ here.
Easy fold river when it's hard for him to value bet again a Q and he really don't have many bluff.
That said, I would have second barrel, I think we still have value on a Q and maybe JJ-TT with a club or float with AcK . Also, he shouldn't have much flush so there aren't many combos that beat us and he will hardly ever bluff.
I'm never folding after playing the hand so passively postflop from the very start.
Definitely not folding the river after we take a c/c, c/c line with a hand this strong. In his eyes you can still have some weak Q, so he can value bet AQ here.
Nor would I, but look at his stats.
What does our hand look like to him? We dont 3bet JJ-TT so we can rule those out.
We can easily have flushes and KK+.
What else would we 3bet vs UTG and play this way that he would expect AQ to be good against on this board when we check-call twice? I cant think of many hands.
Looking at his stats I dont think he would be capable of value betting this light on the river with AQ considering the way the hand has played out.
He is a weak player who is not very aggressive postflop, he goes to showdown a lot and he wins a lot at showdown.
IMO this is a pretty standard vbet with QX OTR cause we rep TT/JJ or random 9X pretty well
If he´s really defending 8% of hands (40% of 20% openingrange) he has hit Toppair in 32% of cases...And i didnt even discount KK+ for 4betting (what means there is even more bare Toppair in his range) or added any bluffs in his range (dont expect many bluffs betting this sizing OTR anyways)
given the price and the line we took this is a snapcall IMO
@fredpie: what makes you think that villain is passive?
That is assuming we are even 3betting TT-JJ in the first place. If my 3bet stats show 2-4% in these positions then villian should perceive my range as not containing many, if any TT-JJ if he is a competent player. This means my range should be extremely strong by the time I get to the river.
What random 9x would we have?
If I use a balanced 2-4% 3B/5B range in this spot as a standard it wouldn't contain any 9x. You just cant make that assumption and then justify a river call because of it.
I would be surprised if this was a standard vbet with AQ for villian without specific reads.
If I am not 3-betting a tight range then I don't know why I would want to 3bet many random 9x hands OOP vs an UTG who is calling 3bets a lot with a tight range.
I didn't include all his stats but with the stats I did list you can see that he isnt very aggressive both preflop and postflop.
well, his wwsf isnt that small, what would make me think he is maybe somewhat aggressive post and not passive. And i dont see any other stat telling he is passive at all beside the small 3bet stat...
whatever...so sry dude if i overread something but i see no info about any stats you perceive that include your 3betstats
And i dont understand your numbers about your 3b/5b range cause there is no 4b or 5b happening... So there is no real assumption to make by me about your 3bet tendencies vs UTG (why shouldnt it include TT/JJ or 92s?)
I get your point that its not "a snapcall"
But i guess you´re forgetting how loose villain is defending here pre. So we dont have to give him a lot of bluffs to justify a call here
Board: Qc6c9d3c2s
Equity Win Tie
MP2 48.75% 47.50% 1.25% { KdKh }
MP3 51.25% 50.00% 1.25% { QQ+, 99, 66, AQs, KQs, AcKc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac5c, Ac4c, KQo, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AcJd, AcJh, AcJs, AcTd, AcTh, AcTs, Ac5d, Ac5h, Ac5s }
he might still have even more bluffs possibly i guess (and even if its tighter we still can call here)
I said in my OP under reads: "Villian appears to be a weakish straight forward regular". I also said in my most recent post that I didn't include all the stats on him. I thought that would have been enough for you to trust me that he was a weak player, sorry for the confusion.
There wasnt any. That is why I found it strange for you to assume it included 9x, TT-JJ as these are not in most peoples standard 3betting ranges against UTG.
I was trying to get the point across that I am using a balanced 3betting and call 4B/5B range that does not include 9x. If we add too many bluffs to our 3betting range we can be exploited quite easily against most competent players. I assumed you would have understood that.
Apart from the reason I just listed above I really have no idea why you would want to 3bet 92s in this specific situation.
To me that seems awfully bad, hopefully you can enlighten me as to why you would include it.
Exactly. He is calling 40% of the time and when he does his range is made up of the top 8% of hands (-AA,-KK) so why would you want to start 3betting random 9x like 93s when your OOP against a very tight range that isn't folding often?
Sorry but how on earth did you come up with this range? A5o!?
I think you need to play around with pokerstove and take a look at a more realistic 8% UTG defend range because it definitely doesnt contain A5o. Not even a 60% Button opener would defend that.
I can't really see folding once we take this line. We've underrepresented our hand and villain has been betting less than half pot on every street, opens wide UTG and defends a ton of his wide range. Also, in pretty much every spot we're going to want to have some hands in our range that are bluffcatchers so even though we might not beat much in his value range he's fairly likely to have at least some bluffing hands or potentially even a hand like AQ that's going for thinnish value.
I can't fold after taking this line either. Especially with his sizing. It feels more like he's trying to get value from JJ or bluff than win the most with a nut hand.
On board with caling too.
I'd prefer a check-call if you had the Kc.
Thanks everyone.
This is a call all day for me when I take this line too but he had a flush this time.
Should we be value betting AQ as villian, even when the BB has a 2.5-4% 3bet in these positions?
It's unfortunate that he had a flush but you still played the hand correctly if to select a passive value line 99% of the time. I would do it with a strong read that my opponent is very aggressive when in position and checked to in 3bet pots.
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