Is limitless bluffing or ...?

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Is limitless bluffing or ...?

Blinds: $25.00/$50.00 (3 Players) BB: $5879.72
BN: $5074.00
SB: $4980.28
Preflop ($75.00)
BN folds, SB calls $25.00, BB checks
Flop ($130.00) K 3 K
SB bets $50.00, BB raises to $175.00, SB raises to $414.00, BB calls $239.00
Turn ($958.00) K 3 K A
SB bets $717.00, BB calls $717.00
River ($2392.00) K 3 K A 9
SB bets $3789.28 and is all in, BB calls $3789.28
Final Pot BB wins and shows a flush, Ace high.
SB lost and shows three of a kind, Kings.
BB wins $9968.56
Rake is $2.00

12 Comments

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sauloCosta10 6 years, 8 months ago

bluffing with trips in a limped pot? I don't see how thats possible at 100bbs effective. He probably had a read that BB doesnt fold any worse Kx and discounted a bunch of flushes because of preflop + flop action and Kh/Ah blocked

Krzysztof Slaski 6 years, 8 months ago

Hey,

I believe you aren't including the exact hands in this hh, unless I'm missing something? It's pretty difficult trying to read into unorthodox play at these 5k stars games because these guys put a ton of volume in vs the same, very small, player pool. They know a lot about each others strategies and likely make plays to abuse small mistakes as much as possible. SB is definitely not bluffing in this situation, whether or not he's trying to follow a strategy that a solver would subscribe to is difficult to say because again this could just be an exploit. SB could have assumed that BB is very aggressive with his preflop raising frequencies with suited cards, or that he's pretty passive with flush draws on the flop. Both of which would reduce the # of flushes in his range ott where he would need to defend wide enough to make the jam the best option. On top of this he could have a hand like KxQh reducing the flushes even further. Or maybe he just thinks the BB is very sticky vs overbets, or a weaker player who will just call very wide in general. Again, tough to say without actually talking to the players or being a part of the pool.

Demondoink 6 years, 8 months ago

if he had KT then it was definitely not a bluff, because he can still be called by a bunch of weaker Kx-Kx2/4/5/6/7/8. he probably believes that IP would raise all better Kx pre-AK/KQ/KJ and so he doesn't lose to stronger Kx unless they are boats. and he can only have 2 boats which are K9/K3. K3 probably doesn't raise flop very often as it blocks everything, and K9 probably mixes pre and mixes on the flop. so he only really loses to a small % of K9 combos as well an extremely low frequency of K3.

of course he loses to flushes but IP would raise a bunch of his suited combos pre, and would check more random Kxo hands. and also he would mix raising FD's on the flop, usually preferring to flat vs a bet as 84hh type hands don't play great in a bloated pot now as it's 8/4 outs are dominated by the OOP calling range once he opts for the raise. and also his flush outs are also dominated often by higher FD'd once he eliminates a bunch of OOP's rando stabbing bet/folds from his range. so lower FD's (of which OOP really only loses to) are also fairly heavily discounted from IP's range. where as IP can have every random Kx combo

Demondoink 6 years, 8 months ago

and also, but i'm not so sure about this, maybe Limitless occasionally thinks that IP will fold an 84hh type hand and instead prefer to bluff catch with a Kx7h type hand. in which case he gets a better hand to fold, and a worse hand, with seemingly very good bluff catching qualities, to call.

but I could be way off on this. just a thought.

Kevin Rabichow 6 years, 7 months ago

I feel like we don't have all the information here, but it's worth pointing out that there's a good chance he just made a (fairly large) error here. It's tempting to justify the play because he's a great player, but...

Value betting Kx for this sizing sequence is basically just not good, unless villain is doing something very poorly. Bluffing is probably unnecessary as he could run this line with A3 or any lower quality blocker hand that doesn't have showdown value. I'd need a lot of context to make me feel like justifying this one.

Dan A 6 years, 7 months ago

Can you explain what the right sizing to use would be here with Kx and why? It's such a wide-range spot for BB that I feel like BB needs to defend hands worse than Kx on the river, even vs. 1.6x pot overbet.

stroggos 6 years, 7 months ago

he could block bet 1/4 or check, don't get why someone would shove KTo here, it's very bad in a 'normal' situation.

Demondoink 6 years, 7 months ago

he must have thought that IP had far more Kx than flushes, based on pre-flop and the flop raise. and he doesn't really lose to any Kx.

seems pretty thin though, if he has the Th then I can see it being much better, but OP didn't say the exact combo that Limitless had so i'm not sure.

ohmyrage 6 years, 3 months ago

I think its a spot where He has all the nuts. If he limps AA/KK/AK and villain can't have any of those. I think he's trying to say he has a range advantage and because of this villains Kx pretty much all have to defend along with alot of his flushes. By jamming the top kicker of what BB is capped at, he can get value from worse Kx while still putting pressure that villain feels compelled to call with his flushes. KxTh would be the best value bottom of value range jam.

Pretty much if villain folds his flushes, the bluff combos SB puts in here will be printing, and he will occasionally have the bottom of his value jam range overlap with the top of villains calling range

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