Ignition (Annon.) AA Flop Spot

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Ignition (Annon.) AA Flop Spot

How are you proceeding in this spot? Curious to hear your thoughts..

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foShizzle 6 years ago

Hello Hawks (you mean Atlanta Hawks win? is Trae Young a future MVP and a new Steph Curry? :)),

  • preflop standard
  • on the flop I assume that we have absolutely no reads or info, we are deep and playing against an SB and BB range
  • SB calling range is sth like a pocket pairs, suited broadways and hands like AJo, maybe higher suited connectors
  • BB calling range here is wide because of the odds and his deep stack makes his implied odds even better
  • board structure is action heavy, this is a very coordinated and very bad flop for your whole range, it is a rather good flop for SB range and a very good flop for a BB range
  • imo the most important decision is to cbet or not to cbet, because as played you have an easy spot I guess
  • imo here you have actually two options and I am mixing both of them with my overpairs in these spots - you can either check back or cbet here. That's my thinking process about this and I would like to hear other voices about that as well.
  • pros for check back: you are keeping pot small, so you give up protection to avoid possible check/raises and you have to evaluate your position on the turn. Generally, you can call a bet on a blank turn (and most of the turn cards are good for you not for drawing hands) and if they check again you basically have here two streets of value because people think that you are cbetting here overpair all day long. Basically, you have an easy calldown.
  • cons for check back: as I said you give up protection; if flush hit you have to fold and you might be bluffed from time to time. Also if we don't cbet here AA, then basically have here a very face up cbetting range, but think about it for a while. Do we actually really care about that? Do we need to have a balanced cbetting range in a multiway spot?
  • pros for betting: you are generating value from draws and worse hands than yours, after a call on the flop you have full control: you can bet or check back on the turn and you can evaluate river because you are in position. Your bets look strong because its multiway and because of the sizing and people will be generally sincere with they raises here so if they reraise you, you know that you are behind.
  • cons for betting: the most important one is that your flop line is to basically bet/fold here because imo stacking against unk on 260 deep with only an overpair would be a huge mistake. I would make a note on that guy and I would love to play him till my days are gone. People will raise you here with value and some draws and you could be bluffed from time to time, so it's potentially a hand waste.
  • as played, you have an eaaaasy fold here. Look at equity of stackoffs here:
  • AsAd vs 76s = 3,28%
  • AsAd vs a bottom set = 11,31%
  • AsAd vs 54s = 27%
  • AsAd vs 8c7c (pair + gut + fd) = 41%
  • AsAd vs 6c3c (oesd + fd) = 44%
  • AsAd vs 9c8c (pair + fd) = 50%
  • AsAd vs 9c7c (gutshot + fd) = 52%
  • AsAd vs AcKc = 62%
  • after SB call and BB reraise it is an easy fold.
  • I would think twice about stacking here with a good flush draw, but with only a pair?
  • I think that with 54s you would maybe consider a call or reraise here, so why would you do that with only a pair which looks so pretty? :)
  • you have to think about this spot that you have a better range to continue here with and there is no reason to stack off. Your bottom to continue here is for me 54s and some very good draws. Especially because you don't know what would SB do.
  • the another (but a really small one) problem is that you are blocking his backdoors with As
  • the more interesting decision is to cbet or not to cbet.
  • When I am thinking about it right now for myself, in the future spots I would probably split it this way: bet with AA without Ac (the best one would be ofc AsAd) and check with AcAx (because you are blocking a nut flush draws so in villains range there are more value combos and less flush draws)

I hope this answer helps you.

HawksWin 6 years ago

Ahhhhhhhh I am from Chicago (Blackhawks Hockey, which is going downhill quite quickly I must say). I just can't get into NBA but it is interesting with the players that will be coming out this year. They need to rebuild after they just couldn't get it done during the D-Rose era.

My thinking is bet/fold any AA combo without club and check the Ac. I am not bluffing AA here but it is on the thin side into 2 other players (can certainly be called by some worse). With Ac, I don't ever want to be betting into set/straight here, I want to check back vs. that range. Bet/folding with such a massive BDFD and 2 outs to top set would be bad I presume.

foShizzle 6 years ago

Haha, now I see :)

So it seems that we have very similar ideas about spots like this.

HawksWin 6 years ago

Yeah, it's quite easy to be beat here and I think stack depth simplifies things really.

fantastadonk 6 years ago

I think we need to cbet smaller or check. I feel a portion of our EV comes from hands like AJ, KQ, KT, when the turn is a none club A,K,Q,J,T and he pairs, we get an extra street of value. If we cbet too big those hands will outright fold on the flop. It's also a pretty good spot for BB to bluff raise so we reduce his bluff EV when we cbet smaller. As played I tend to be sticky in obvious bluff spots and call once to force villain to bluff twice.

belrio42 6 years ago

Gross spot. I would probably fold. Getting this much action on this board sucks.

A case could be made for checking the flop as well.

HawksWin 6 years ago

Yeah, I agree looking at it closer. I think it's a two street hand on this board anyway AND I don't need over card protection. Smaller size or check is better choice. Can extract maybe a bit of value from draws but there are going to be a ton of unpaired two tone hands that might catch up on some turns. QQ, JJ, TT benefit more from protection than AA and KK here.

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