I made a bad call (NL 50)
Posted by jonzocker
Posted by
jonzocker
posted in
Low Stakes
I made a bad call (NL 50)
BB: 106.82
UTG: 64.86
HJ: 61.78
CO: 50 (Hero)
BN: 54.29
BB folds, UTG calls 0.50, HJ raises to 2, Hero calls 2, SB folds, SB folds, UTG calls 1.50
Hey guys I just want to talk about a mistake I made to remember this kind of spots for the future...
Villain is unknown and playing on the first 66 hands 30/23 so nothing special
The Flopcall should be std. on this Board as same as the Turn.
His Range on the Turn is very very likely just for value, because the fish and I am are still in the hand and therefore I do not see him betting QJ/KJ/KQ a lot, particularly becauce it is a rainbow Turn and he cant have a FD. Given that I think his Rnage looks like this on:
AA,TT,33,AQs+,A3s,AQo+,ATo,A3o
A3o is not always oR pre and AQ not always valuebetting the River, but still this should be quit realistic...
The fish folds and the River brings the K.
Imo this is a very easy fold on the River, because the K is the not worse card for us and all AK combos beat us now. I do not see him pushing with AQ at all and because of his strong Turnrange he is not able to bluff.
- I do not want to accept that my equity changed drastically, I just do not accept variance
- I want to prove that I got 3 outed "again"
- I do not think logical about the situation and try to figure out what his range looks like, even if I know deep down that I can´t call
- I think absolute and not relative
This are all mental flaws I have and where I need to work on my C-Game to handle this situation the right way and not getting tilted because I accept the situation and variance and just try to figure out the line with the biggest EV, because otherwise I will loose it!
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why call pre with ATo??? major leak against a TAG who opens utg+1. Easiest fold ever pre and u dont get in this spot watch ur equaty against his MP opening . If he is not a absolute weak player u will loose a lot of money in the longrun. U hit the best possible flop for ur hand and still loose a lot of money. Just fold pre
why call pre with ATo??? major leak against a TAG who opens utg+1.
Easiest fold ever pre and u dont get in this spot watch ur equaty
against his MP opening .
Ok first of all Villain is in the CO. Vs a std. 26,4% OR Range I am doing not that bad :)
To make a point clear, HU I am mostly 3bet or folding this hand, but with the oL who is most likely to call as well I am shure that a call has an positive EV.If he is not a absolute weak player u will loose a lot of money in the
longrun.
I think you exaggerate a little bit. Lets look at some facts why I think this is a +EV call pre:
- The CO is probably isoR lighter than he would as a first in oR ( I am def. playing more hands in this spot when a bad player oL)
- The CO is not going to bluff me a lot with a worse hand given that I have position on all of the guys and Villain is in the middle:
- The CO is going to valuebet with his nuts most of the time, with the fish in the pot. I can assume that he is not slowplaying his hands a lot...
- If the CO bets I can make a good estimation about his range and if he checks I can make a good estimation about the hands he do not has.
- Given that I can valuebet very think if he checks, I can but a lot of pressure on him because he is capped an the most important fact I play the fish IP!
Now lets look at the spot we are facing in the hand. As I said Villain is not bluffing a lot vs two players on the flop and nearly never on the turn. I do not want to repeat myself, but the important thing is that I can put him on a very defined range, which gives me a huge EV advantage. Therefore it is an easy call on the Turn and as I said a mistake to call the river...
U hit the best possible flop for ur hand and still loose a lot of money. Just fold pre
Sry, but this is totally results oriented and given that I made a postflop mistake do not mean that I should not call pre to avoid this spots. It is not a taff spot where I realize that I messed up the hand on earlier streets, it is just the nut worst rivercard.
To sum it up, I am glad about your thoughts and I am always happy when people do not agree with me but I think your arguments are mostly wrong or you do not explain why they are right:
why call pre with ATo??? major leak against a TAG who opens utg+1.
Why do you think we loose a lot of money? If this is the easiest fold ever pre what are you doing with AJ? I mean if AT is the easiest fold ever pre AJ should be a fold to right? So AQ is a close call?
Easiest fold ever pre and u dont get in this spot watch ur equaty against his MP opening
This is not an argument. We should always try to play max. EV and not to find the easiest decision. I guess you thought I play vs the MP, but still vs a CO isoR we are doing good...
If he is not a absolute weak player u will loose a lot of money in the longrun.
Why? Imo I will have a +EV spot even vs a solid reg (explanation above)
U hit the best possible flop for ur hand and still loose a lot of money.
As I said resultsoriented (explanation above)
So let me know what you think and please evaluate both side with arguments that stick. Imo you cant say a play is bad without looking for the pros...
watch what u posted hj not co!
if he is a weak player ur call get + EV thats true
but then u absolutely need 2 fold the river if u got such a strong read on villain
I just meant he opens from HJ and against a solid reg normally we have an equety advantage then he also has the betting
lead and we do not hit often enough the flop to continue. the only + Ev thing here is we got position. But we need 2 make a lot of plays for example floats 2 win money
cause we do hit about 1/3 of the time then we are also often dominated. ATs i would like more a call AT o i like a raise or fold more. From my experience regs that open from HJ have a range >20%. If u think u can outplay villain often enough a call is ok. But i dont uderstand why u call the river in this spot if u have such a strong read that villain never bluffs u. And thi calls on the river from u make this preflop call a huge -EV preflop call! I know this sound stupid but we all make mistakes like this we are no high stakes player thats why folding preflop makes this easier. Was no intention 2 harras u.
Im also just here 2 learn so pls take no offence of my posts
Hey
Obv. I do not take any comments to my hands as an offence ;) The hand HH gets always fuckt up by RIO and I should have def. explaint the positions...
Still I like to argue a lot about everything and think that it is very important to learn the right "thinking" for analyzing a hand. Therefore I do think that it is mostly useless to get the right answer with a wrong approach and I always try to find the best approach and with it the best answer. Otherwise I do not learn a lot and will do mistakes in similar spots...
So when I copy every sentence you wrote and say my opinion it is just for my own improvment and notbecause I want to prove someone wrong ...
Given that I am open for any thoughts and opinion, but obv. without an
explanation and logical thoughts (important) I do not learn a lot.
example:
And thi calls on the river from u make this preflop call a huge -EV
preflop call! I know this sound stupid but we all make mistakes like
this we are no high stakes player thats why folding preflop makes this
easier.
This explanation is not logical at all. I talked about the mistake I made above and lets assume this is my C-Game when doing those plays... Obv. I am loosing money by playing my C-Game and C-Game means often that the hole line gets -EV. But we should not approach a spot this way! We should not say, ok this was a bad call on the river, why not folding pre and avoid this spot.
IMO the right approach for the best preflop decission is to evaluate all pros and cons and find a conclusion which we can explain without a flawed thought process
When it comes to the river and realize that we made a bad call, we should think about the earlier streets and ask ourself if we are happy with them. If we can answer this with yes, we should argue as logical as possible why it was wrong to call and learn the right thought process for future pots...
The pre-flop call is way too loose, but I like the calldown.
If you did your thoughtprocess would be really great.
As I said without it I do not really learn a lot, besides question my play which is obv. always good...
Preflop is fine as fuck. Don't know why you get hated on.
I Isoraise a shitton in this Spot as CO. You are IP vs Fish and CO's loose PFR Range.
As played fold River.
Ya I don't mind a river call here. Your assumptions are that villains river betting range is essentially 100% nutty hands. He may use blockers and go nuts with 10x kx or over value aq with such a small stack to pot left that was scared to x/f.
If players behind are not very aggro(particularly BU) then i think pre is fine, given the value of the fish.
Post: i call down, unless you have some super super strong read
very cool taking accountability and labeling c-game problems (regardless of EV of this particular decision).
If you actually are BTN and he's CO, I don't think you can rule out AQ here. He might not be betting all the AQ combos, but if he is sometimes betting them this is a lot closer than what you seem to think IMO. If he bets 1/3 of AQ combos it's a BE call equity wise.
I think you're right on, though, with your main point. If, in game you called because of those leaks up there and not because of a solid process, it hardly matters, it's still something that needs improvement. Great post man.
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