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How to play the turn?

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

How to play the turn?

BN: Banisher666: $206.52
SB: Hero: $208.56
BB: pavlushka072: $178.82
UTG: lejean80: $825.32
HJ: matt20: $224.02
CO: bigbalu67: $511.27
Preflop ($3.00) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt 9 K
lejean80 folds, matt20 folds, bigbalu67 raises to $4, Banisher666 calls $4, Hero raises to $20, pavlushka072 folds, bigbalu67 calls $16, Banisher666 folds
I squeeze because both fold too much to 3-bets, especially the BTN.
Flop ($47.00) K 9 7 (2 Players)
Hero bets $25, bigbalu67 calls $25
Don't see much else to do. Don't want to give him a free card, and he expectrs me to c-bet here with hands like AK.
Turn ($97.00) K 9 7 Q (2 Players)
Hero checks, bigbalu67 bets $46
Not sure how many JTs combos he has in his range, given that he's OOP versus the BTN. He'd likely raise JTss on the flop.
KQ is hand that makes a lot of sense too, though I'm not sure if he flats that or 4-bet bluffs with the blockers.
99/77 are possible, but I think he raises those on the flop, to balance his semi-bluffing range, and because there are a lot of action killers on the turn.

As for hands we beat, KJ/T8s, AsQx, QJs, 9x/7x bluffs.

Thoughts?

22 Comments

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Lumpizaver 11 years, 4 months ago

Preflop and flop are fine. Turn is really gross, I probably check just as you did, call his bet and re-evaluate river, leaning towards a x/f on most rivers. I think the board slams his range and our 2pair are not as strong as they might look like.

5BetJam 11 years, 4 months ago

If you have already noticed him folding too many times to a 3B, why would you assume that he'd have a 4B bluff in his arsenal? It's hard to 4B any non-monster hand ip (save AKo which is pretty monster) since you 3B from sb and it's so easy for you to just gii pre . I think your flop bet is too small. I'm betting close to $35 in that spot for value. Turn is pretty ugly but I don't think it's ugly to give up your betting lead. You still have monsters in your range - KK/99/AsKx etc plus your actual hand is ahead of a lot of hands. Just because flush got there is no reason to give up the betting lead. You are still getting called by 97, AK, KJ etc. 

Sauce123 11 years, 4 months ago

Chael,

Since you have the read that both fold too much to 3bets, you can probably put balu on a pretty tight range preflop.  Maybe 77-JJ, AQ, KQ, suited bways, the occasional SC or AJ?  I think if he's that tight this is a nice place to make a tight fold.  Top level players will leverage their nutty range on this board to add more bluffs to their range, but you shouldn't expect that here; and honestly, even some top level guys get in spots where they run out of bluffs. 

The thing is, he might be protection betting turn with a weirdly played AK or KhJh type hand, not to mention you have 4 outs to a boat and his range contains a lot of straights and flushes to pay you off.  Go ahead and call turn and pay attention to his timing and bet size on the river- planning to fold if he bets more than 2/3 pot for sure, and maybe fold to a smaller bet if you think it's right.

Chael Sonnen 11 years, 4 months ago

''Top level players will leverage their nutty range on this board to add more bluffs to their range''

Could you please elaborate a little on this?

Chael Sonnen 11 years, 4 months ago

Not completely sure what you are saying, but thanks for the suggestions.
You listed a couple of loose peels/floats, hands with backdoor equity, and hands with marginal showdown value.

These hands are not good enough to get to showdown profitably, so I'm assuming you want to call flops to take it away on the turn? Turn pairs into bluffs, bluff blockers on scary runouts?

If that's the case, would a turn check-shoving strategy do well versus that type of opponent?



mplecki23 11 years, 4 months ago

Chael, he's saying because he's folding so often to the SQ, he calling range is fairly strong (77-JJ, AQ, KQ, and occasional SC or AJ), and because he is so tight, he has a lot of value hands, and to have enough bluffs, he can add the "ATcc, AsJx, A9cc, T9dd, 76dd, etc" into his bluffing range. Villain still might not have even enough bluffs, so you can possibly just fold the turn.

LovePattaya 11 years, 4 months ago

If he folds a lot to squeeze on prefrlop, do you think he will have this hands in his range? I mean he could have ATcc AsJx - maybe not 100% of them. But T9dd A9cc 76dd means he folds not that much preflop.

 If I'm right, he hardly have any hands to "leverage nutty range" with

dkelley1 11 years, 4 months ago

maybe not GTO logic or wtv but feel like no1 ever goes bet turn check riv and k9 is good (from experience they always go bet bet, so you gotta decide if they have enough bluffs to go call call, until you develop history w/ people in these type of spots) --> call turn fold riv seems like worst line to me


Japandoggyman 11 years, 4 months ago

First of all king 9 suited..meh, depending on your oppenents I guess thats why you decided to squeeze. Anyway since he was the initial raiser he may have a k-q and bet the turn to steer you away from peeling off a spade, this is a tough situation I can see where your coming from.

slowboy 11 years, 3 months ago

Why cant we bet the turn and check river? Our hand is so face up by now its easy for villain to bluff us off it? Or should we start checking KK here aswell to build A stronger check call range? 

slowboy 11 years, 3 months ago

Or does that strengthen his range too much and the fact that we fold out all that we beat? I guess tho he Can have Asx to float turn and bluff river bit thats basically it?

Chael Sonnen 11 years, 3 months ago

Because we'd only get value out of pair+spade, and he doesn't have that very often because he'd have to call a squeeze with hands like KJo with someone behind, and his 3-bet calling stats are tight.
So we don't really need protection, and lose to flushes and KQ.

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