How to play poker when we got 1000BB deep stack?
Posted by Ander Yan
Posted by
Ander Yan
posted in
High Stakes
How to play poker when we got 1000BB deep stack?
Hello! I am a new comer of Runitonce. I usually played 5/10 live NLH, sometimes 10/20.I played a 5/10 session recently, my chips came to 1000bb deep and the one of my opponents got the similiar deep stack at the last several hours of this session.
This villain is an overaggressive player, and even maniac. I have to admit facing this type of opponent with a extremely deep stack, I'm very uncomfortable and overcautious.
My question is how to adjust when most effective stacks are 300bb~500bb, and one or two opponents got 1000bb effective stack.It's the first time I played with such a deep stack, had no idea of the best strategy. I did some adjustment in this session as below, welcome any comments and advice:
1. open any hand I want to play, or 3bet even 4bet, never limp or flat. I may flat when holding 9Ts/A5s with stack of 100~200bb, but I 3-bet when stack over 300bb.
2. Not to play any suited cards weaker than Q.
3.One of adjustment I'm not sure is that I will fold any pocket pair lower than 88 when I'm in blinds and villain is a good reg with effective stack of 500bb or more. First of all, I'm afraid of being set over set; and the most profit of baby pair is set-mining for over pair or top pair, but it's hard to get enough value from the good reg when out of position.
4.I squeeze weak player with 57s or TJs when I'm in blinds. Usually I do the same action with A8o or K5o when effective stack is 200bb.5.When I facing 3bet from some good players with thinking-level, I 4bet with KJs/ATs(effective stack 500bb or more).
6.with 500bb effective stack, I dont know how to play 99/TT/JJ in blinds when EP open and MP or LP 3bet.
Loading 7 Comments...
In general, I suggest that 3bet or 4bet more when you are in position and your opponents are super deep. For example, i think its good to 3bet 57s or TJs @ CO or BTN but not blinds. At this depth, you cannot expect a fold pre and you have to play them OOP OTF. And they are hard to play OOP.
For point 6, I will call the 3bet and play set mining and pot control(if possible).
I dont like to discuss about set over set issues as it is very rare. Furthermore, if people at the table are not too nitty, I will stack off very often.
Last to say,dont bother with this question too much as we seldom play that deep and lets focus on depth below 300BB.
Hi,
I
used to often play in games where minimum buy was 300 BB+ (to discourage
grinders from taking shots) and these were things I noticed :
Once
effective stacks become that deep, one thing i noticed that happens a lot live is
that opens stop making sense (i.e. ppl start opening 5x-7X+ from any position inflating pots pre)
. This is cause with so much money on the table people want to protect there
hand, some maniacs abuse the fact that people play scared so deep and inflate
to steal, or others inflate and balance there ranges well.
The
key things to notice is if with inflated opens is the extent your opponents range also
widens. Playing deep, opponents give away a lot of open and 3-bet sizing
tells so look out for that.
As
for your own range, if you choose to open it up, stay to the rule of doing it
more in position than out and also balance your sizing for your ranges . Also
be aware of the short-stacks, many times , I've seen big stacks get involved in
these raising wars, and a short stack quickly just limp-shoves for a easy
steal.
Quickly
addressing your points:
1.
In general opening/ 3 betting hands you want to
play is not a bad idea, however in your case you are 3 betting every hand
you want to play. Essentially every time you see a flop, you have either 3 bet
or opened. If you are doing this from a
variety of positions, ideally balance your range, 3-bet/open with the higher
portions of your range OOP. But be warned, an opponent noticing your just opening or 3 betting everything, he would would start 3betting you/4-betting you light pre or donking flops on
you to steal. So i would prefer still
mixing in a few limps and calls into my pre-flop moves to keep em guessing
2.
This sounds like a worry of reverse implied
odds. Once again its player specific. If you are willing to fold big hands/or
keep pots small/take bet fold lines, you can play a wider range. Once you get
so deep, I feel a lot of the poker is about chipping away slowly at stacks. I
personally play a wider range than that, but it keeps with my image.
3.
This once again depends on many things , for the
most part, I don’t fold pairs to an open If the math is good to set mine (with the implied
odds to back it up) , whats the harm. But yeah maybe HU against a good reg, i
might once in a whie. Set over sets happen if you are playing within BR, this
should be things to worry about.
4.
I don’t like 4 especially considering what you
do in 3. If you are folding pairs less than 8’s from BB and now squeezing and
3bet/4betting these weaker holdings , I feel there is a range imbalance from this
position which over time , if the right opponents are observing will be noticed
and can be exploited. I would just stick with your plan and wait for a better
spot/better holding for these spots. Sure throwing it in once in a while for
randomization doesn’t hurt but don’t over do it.
5.
Mine that shit, control the pot. (this is point
6six in your post).
Those are my thoughts on the situation. Ideally be aware of
all stack sizes. Once you get so deep, I feel a lot of the poker is a marathon not that sprint to double up that 100BB poker can be :)
1) I don't open limp that often if ever but limping behind isn't bad when your playing really deep in certain situations. I'm also not so sure why you think flatting is bad.
2) certain situations this is just flat out wrong. ex: Huge fish that literally can't fold postflop opens to 40 playing 5 10nl. 500bbs effective in cutoff and folds to you in the bb with q5ss. Start calling.
3) I don't think this is particularly bad but If i'm folding its 22-66. Again it's not quite as technical as playing 100bb stacks online where its been mathematically proven that it is hard to do. Poker becomes less and less solvable the deeper stacks get. (lefort)
4) I wouldn't say 3 betting weak players with 57s is wrong or bad but I wouldn't say, " i'm doing this with this hand every time". Adjust to your opponents, think about their tendencies. There is no shame in calling and playing a hand against an opponent post flop.
5) Again.. I don't think this is bad but you can get yourself into some really sticky spots with speculative hands this deep. The whole 3 and 4 betting wars are pretty unnecessary when your playing really deep live. You aren't making a ton of money pre flop playing 500's bb's deep. 3 and 4 betting become less and less effective the deeper you are. Your edge will show itself exploiting players post flop.
6) If i'm oop I play fairly tight in spots like this when its against good players. Play 100% of the time when there is a fish in the pot. No I do not 4 bet.
also u said u flat 100-200 bb deep with hands like 910s but u 3 bet 500 bbs So your just inflating pots non stop with 910s all day long? What about when someone opens the cutoff and two fish are in the blinds and your on the button with 44 or 910ss? Certainly you don't just auto 3 bet?
Anyway... your afraid to play postflop this deep is all it comes down to. That's the biggest problem. Your not trying to get in 1000bb's pre or even 1000's bb post flop. You are in a position to maximize value and you have ammunition in front of you to do it. Your in a hand, you assess your opponents range, think about his tendencies, think about your own range and what it looks like to your opponent, choose a bet size, go for it. You don't have to get 1000's bb's in post flop when u flop bottom set if the situation doesn't warrant it. Trust yourself. Live poker and deepstacked poker is so much more awesome than 100bb solved poker.
+1
I cannot comment of the entire question because I rarely play 300BB+, but the most obvious thing I've noticed is that in deepstack play (up to 300BB), is that way too much emphasis is put on hands with drawing potential.
Obviously, playing suited connectors and set mining with PPs work better in deep stacked poker, but a ton of people will just call every 3-bet, or calls OOP in bloated pots with any draw, calls big 4-bets with dominated ranges etc., just because ''they might win a big pot''.
So the players have basically over adjusted, in which case you should be looking to punish draws and look for thin value spots, while mindful of their drawning/trapping strategy.
You'll get 200BB becore they ''trap'''you once for 100BB. Phil Helmuth style.
I'm not playing your stakes, but I see a problem with "deep stack, I'm very uncomfortable and overcautious" concerning Bankrollmanagement.
What all the others said does apply to most stake above NL100/200. Position becomes more important and therefore 3beting light becomes necessary to be balanced. As long as you know that, for a live game you're fine.
Still I think the psychological aspect is more important. I've been playing NL200/400 with people live that were technically worse poker players but I've been money scared that time. Still I couldn't sit there 1000bb deep with someone on my left, because 4000$ is too much on the table.
How does losing 10000$ affect you??? This is probably the answer to your feeling of discomfort. Can you still sleep well and play your A-game the next day?
Point 2 made me lol. :)
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