How to play against a limping loose table?

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How to play against a limping loose table?

Hey RIO crew,

I'm playing $1/$3 (200NL) at Crown Casino. Competition can be very soft. I am starting to struggle against a particular type of table that seems to be happening... well more than it should.

Usually theres about 1-2 others on the 9 ring table that are regs. The others are different forms of recreational players (calling station, maniac etc).

There seems to be many tables at Crown Casino where people just love to limp. Everyone just loves to limp and catch a sight of the flop. Now normal poker strategy would dictate that you should raise and punish these limpers but here is the issue...the limpers won't go away. The famous line is "Now i got value, I have to play...."

So here are some typical tough spots that you can run into:
4 limpers before CO and you have A7s, do you raise? do you limp? If i raise here, it is almost guaranteed that 3/4 limpers will most likely call (without even taking into consideration Button and blinds). When they call, it's very hard for you to put them on a range. Many of these players could be playing a better A than you but decided to limp (purely because they haven't figured out a decent opening range).

Is a potential strategy to raise a higher amount when you do open (I usually make it $12... perhaps making it $16-18 will push more of these players out).

This is one area I am having huge issues with and I know and I am playing many hands WRONGLY because of this very reason. More often than not, i find myself limping in to catch a flop and outplay them post flop (because many of them are calling stations).

When the flop doesnt favour me, I usually check/fold because with 3-4 other players in, it is very unlikely you can push everyone out.

Some other table dynamics - A 3Bet on these tables usually indicates Qs and higher. A 4-bet is indicative of Ks and As.
Ranges are quite polarized on these table when it comes to 3 and 4 bets.

So I guess in a nutshell, my question is how to play optimally on a table similar to this. It might be a tricky question and I've tried to list down a lot of the table dynamics I find when playing on these tables. If you have any additional questions, please do ask.

Keen to hear from you all,

Tutor

15 Comments

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MrCalzone 9 years, 8 months ago

It really depends on how the table is playing post flop. If they are stickier players who like to call cbets lightly and make showdown a little more challenging, then I'd be more inclined to overlimp and try to hit favorable flops.

In most 1/3 games, you can also get away with some pretty exploitable bet-sizing because most players have pretty inelastic calling ranges. They won't be changing frequencies and ranges based off your bet-sizing, so you can get away with stuff like 1.2x PSB when you make your flush, etc.

LuckyMer 9 years, 8 months ago

In limping tables online I start isolating with stronger range to larger sizing (to 7-8-9 big blinds). Range could be AJ+,KQ,TT+, maybe some suited broadway, else I overlimp.

Eeciaj 9 years, 8 months ago

Wow a fellow Aussie, I play at crown as well same limits. It is by far the most loose and aggressive table online and offline. The above advices are very good, if you play solid poker and make the least amount of mistakes you should be very profitable. But it also depends what days and times you play because the game will adjust, so your game will need to adjust as well.

Tutor 9 years, 8 months ago

That's a very interesting point about what day and times you play at crown. Ive been thinking about the very same thing. What days/nights do you normally play at (that you found most profitable)?

For me, I go Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday evenings. I know Fridays and Saturdays attract a lot of fish 5:00pm onwards but my win rate is very poor during this time.

Eeciaj 9 years, 8 months ago

Friday and Saturday night are definitely the most profitable but also the swings can be quite strong because you have a lot of recreational players but if you play solid enough in the long run you will find it the most profitable. I normally play during the day and Friday night and Sunday afternoon. Whilst you might still come across a few regs my experience so far is that losing sessions are more because I've made more mistakes not because I was out played

Tutor 9 years, 8 months ago

Yea you're probably right. I'm gonna be there Tuesday-Saturday most weeks. See you at the tables! PS: Better not take my money!

bronxsystem 9 years, 8 months ago

hey fellow aussiiieee. I play in Sydney

imo reading your post just sounds like you need to think about what the purpose of each action is. If you think about each action you will develop better understanding of how to exploit people.

EG the A7s you mentioned "punish limpers" but that's to simplistic. If you raise and get 1 or 2 callers and they are fit/fold type then yeah raise because will take down a lot of flops and with Ax you have showdown value they are passive will get to realise you requity bla bla. If goes 7 way then you wont have any FE otf so just play the odds your getting pre and limp.

vs loose stations just value bet and you will do fine.

Tutor 9 years, 8 months ago

Just had a hand recently:

I had K7s on SB. 4 limpers before it gets to me so i call. BB checks

Flop: AK7r (pot - $18)

I bet $15, everyone folds except for Button who calls.

Turn - 5 (pot $48)

I bet $35 and he moves all in for another $100 to call

I thought for a minute and called thinking that I could only lose to A5.

Villan won with AK. I really dont know what to do here. I spoke to a friend who plays 1/3 at crown and he said its pretty standard for a lot of players to limp with AK to see a flop first but when 3 players limped and you have AK on the button, to not raise is just quite ridiculous. Just wanted to see if I should have folded here.

Eeciaj 9 years, 8 months ago

It is true what your friend said a lot of people would just limp with AK for a variety of reasons. But I think you should focus more on how the play unfolded. The flop was a strong bet and any callers would have at least a middle to top pair ( depending on your image) at worse bottom pair, therefore you can cancel out j10 or QJ. The turn bet was very strong again and then a raise all in. Since it's a rainbow board and the straight draw didn't hit your probably up against a two pair or a set. The only two pairs you can beat is k5 or 75 and the only possible combos you lose to is 77, AK, KK, AA, A5 (assuming he didn't call flop bet with 55). It's a hard fold and I probably would have called as well since you have invested $52. The image of the villain comes into play as too, so keep that in mind because if he is playing snug doubtful he is going all in with just top pair. Also it's unfortunate that you ran into a two pair on the flop

Tutor 9 years, 8 months ago

A couple of interesting spots at $1/3 at crown casino:

*Hand 1:*
Hero ($160) - AQs (SB)

Action: UTG+1 opens to $9
UTG +2 call
UTG +3 folds
UTG +4 call
Button calls (villan) - stack - $520
Hero raises to $35
folds to button who raises it to $90

Whats the right play here?

Line of thinking: Button will almost always re-raise the pot with QQs+ (maybe not with AK on crown $1/3) but his call and now his re-raise doesnt add up. KK or AA wouldn't have taken this line so at this point, I'm putting him on a smaller pair like TT or 88s. I raise all in and get called for another $60.

What do you think of my analysis of the hand? Is there anything I missed or should take into consideration?

Hand 2:
UTG +1 opens to $8
UTG +3 (stack - $85) raises to 30 (a bit of an overbet but okay...)
folds to button
Button (villan) (stack $400) raises to $85
SB (Hero) (stack - $600) calls with KK

UTG +3 calls and is now all in.

Pot - $275ish

Flop - QQ5r

Hero checks,

Villan bets $140
Hero pushes all in

Line of thinking
First of all, I think i played this hand wrong. Just from experience, a 4 bet at crown ($1/3 stakes) usually indicates KKs or AA. This caused me to call pre flop instead of moving all in which was probably the better play here. The flop is not too bad because the only think in his range (in my opinion) is JJ+ and if he had a Q, very unlikely that he would bet it out here (but thats just my read). I'm not sure of my play on moving all in because I think the possibility of him having AA isn't too low.

Eitherway, I think I played hand 2 completely wrong (possibly even on all streets) but I wanted to share these two hands I recently played to see if anyone has any other input or analysis they would like to share.

Keen to hear from you.

Tutor

Eeciaj 9 years, 8 months ago

I think you should start a new thread with new header to help others view the new hands.

Hand 1: I can only assume that button (villain) is thinking your trying to steal and will test you out with anything from aq, ak, 99, 10s and maybe Jacks. Unless he has you tagged as LAG pocket KK AA maybe QQ or Ak would re raise on the button instead of a flat call. So your analysis is pretty spot on. Not sure if I would call since your best hope is close to a coin flip and only combo you fav against is AJ.

Hand 2: It seems likely that villain has aces. So if the combos you have him figured are JJ+ then Jacks are the only combo you beat and are dead to QQ huge underdog against Aces and calling for a chop against KK. I think I'm folding on the flop here. How did the hands play out?

Tutor 9 years, 8 months ago

Hey Eeciaj,

Hand 1, villan had 8To. I guess he thought I was trying to steal and just made a move.

Hand 2, villan had JJ or TT and he folded flop when I shoved all in. You're probably right in that I should have folded hand 2 or maybe put a tester bet of $60-80 on the flop instead of checking it to him.

Eeciaj 9 years, 8 months ago

Nice call on both occassions then in hindsight. Gotta love these crown players who just hand over money to you on a silver plater haha. Seems to me you had a great read on the players and situation. While on paper it looks easy to fold it's only half the story.

Tutor 9 years, 8 months ago

Perhaps, I think on another day, the guy could have had AA (hand 2) but I think overall it was okay. I'm grinding quite consistently at crown now. Trying to get in about 30-40 hours a week.

Eeciaj 9 years, 8 months ago

Nah doubt 99/100 Ace would just flat on button especially at crown haha. Pretty good hours your clocking. I was there Friday night but at table 41 I think or 42. Was suppose to go this Sunday afternoon but got called into work. Good luck buddy feel free to direct message any hands or advice to me.

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