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How do you control your 3 bet %?

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How do you control your 3 bet %?

I read articles on donkr and he suggest using random number generator to determine if it's the time to 3 bet bluff. That's fine when your 1 tabling but when you play a lot of tables you need some different system to get the frequencies right so you don't 3 bet to much or to little. What is your approach to balance your frequencies to not offer opporunity to get exxploited? It is easier to get frequencies for 4 betting right becouse it is a lot less combos that you have to count but when 3 betting it gets more complicated as there are so many bluff candidates whith simmilar value.

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UpUpAndAway 10 years, 6 months ago

You could always just figure out what 3bet% you want to have by position against most opponents and then develop a range that incorporates that %. So you obviously add your premiums that you would 3bet for value into that range but then add your bluffs and randomize them by suit. In the long run it should come out to the % you're shooting for.

brianousley 8 years, 4 months ago

This is the way I do it. A5s and moving down the suited aces is nice way to start. I like to pick a few precise suited connector hands that I will allow myself to 3 bet as well for board coverage. Just pick the right number of combos to balance your 3 bet value range

PhisyFishy 10 years, 6 months ago

Personally i just 3bet a lot vs people who i know i can exploit by 3betting a lot and 3bet a lot less vs those who i think i exploit by "under 3betting". So rather than say i am going to 3bet 67s 35% of the time in SB vs BTN, i will 3bet it 100% of the time vs some villains and close to 0 vs others. Seems to give an overall decent %, i have ~10% 3bet across my last 50k hands playing 6-max which seems reasonable to me.

It does mean i have ridiculously high 3bets vs some players but this will either go unnoticed because they just glance at their hud and see my overall %, or they do notice and tend to over-adjust and make some pretty horrible plays. Won't work at all limits because people will adjust better the higher you go but works for me at 100NL.

UpUpAndAway 10 years, 6 months ago
This is definitely a good strategy as far as exploitation is concerned. If we were mass tabling against some newer players, though, we could always just 3bet 67ss in your example to achieve a 25% 3bet with 67s.


Sauce123 10 years, 6 months ago

3bet clubs on monday, spades on tuesday, hearts on wednesday

BigFiszh 10 years, 6 months ago

Hey, he´s certainly not that simple to read. He takes this exact strategy only on odd weeks, the other times he´s doing it the reverse way, but only on months that start with "J", on months that have a "A", "M" or "D" in it, he makes it depending on the number of the week, but ... ;)

GameTheory 10 years, 6 months ago
Hey, he´s certainly not that simple to read. He takes this exact strategy only on odd weeks, the other times he´s doing it the reverse way, but only on months that start with "J", on months that have a "A", "M" or "D" in it, he makes it depending on the number of the week, but ... ;)

Then he would still not use a mixed strategy intraday. Your argument is invalid.

sweet16 10 years, 6 months ago

I have done the same way as Sauce for a while, at first it seemed kinda weird and annoying to keep track of days etc. But now I think it's a really good solution, since I get so much better board coverage than doing it the lazy way and have all combos of every single hand you decide to 3b


GameTheory 10 years, 6 months ago

Actually, using this clock would be much better to randomize suits. You can even push the seconds hand a little forward every time your suit of choice gets observed so that your opponents cannot figure out in which 15 second interval your arrow will be the next time you decide to randomize.


JulianR 10 years, 6 months ago

I think a clocks better and just as easy, or easier, than various suited methods people use.  But a clock method with suits, seems more complicated than it needs to be to me.

I use the seconds on a desktop clock with each 10 second block equal to 20%.  If it's in the last ten seconds of the minute then just each second equals the percent.

So say I want to call 50% and 3b 50%.  I look at the seconds on a clock on the desktop, if it's 1-25 (or 51-55)seconds past I can call, if 26-50 (or 55-00) I 3b.

I haven't been paranoid enough yet to move the seconds forward or backward.  If someone is good enough to exploit this, they deserve it.

This method also keeps me vaguely in touch with what time of day, day of the week and date it is.  Stuff that the real world seem to care about.  Which reminds me, its time to take the rubbish out.

Trolldeg 10 years, 6 months ago

For spots where I like to bluff/3bet/call/whatever around 50% of the time I use the order of the cards. Higher card on the left and I go for it. Sadly this doesnt work very well with pocket pairs. ;-)



Chael Sonnen 10 years, 6 months ago

I'd recommend that you look at at your value range in every spot (for instance, CO vs UTG), and balance that with bluffs.
That's very hard to do because 1. nobody knows what the correct ratio or 3bet sizing is, and your value range changes according to his reaction.

So you can say your value range is AA/KK/QQ/AKs, which is 22 combos.
Now give yourself let's say a 2:1 value ratio (which isn't fully accurate because your 'bluffs' have equity), and find some good hands to do it with.

So you can do it with 98s/87s/A5s/A3s half the time, and 3/4 times with ATs.

Every time UTG opens and you have one of those hands, you just think about whether or not you 3bet it last time, and just do it half the time (and 3/4 times with ATs).
That last part can't be too hard to remember.

I know there are holes in what I just said, but it's a decent start.


arizonabay 10 years, 6 months ago

Every time UTG opens and you have one of those hands, you just think about whether or not you 3bet it last time, and just do it half the time (and 3/4 times with ATs).That last part can't be too hard to remember.

That sounds good in theory but is actually very hard for most people to remember what they did w/ ATs the last time they had it CO vs UTG when they are playing 6 tables, and when you throw in other hands in other positions vs other positions you are going to be taking up a lot of mental energy trying to remember these things. I would use a random number generator before trying that or the second hand on a watch. But honestly whatever works for you and you feel comfortable with is likely to be ok. 

EluSiVeMark 10 years, 6 months ago

Dont u think a 1:1 ratio is better? U need continue about 40% of the times vs a 4bet to not be exploited, and because their bluffs have equity when we have a callingrange we should defend some more.

Also like u mentioned; our bluffs have equity vs their callingrange aswell. So with some guessing i'd think a ratio of 1:1 could be good.

Chael Sonnen 10 years, 6 months ago

I looked into it a little bit last week, and I used a 60:40 value range because of what you said.
It's all pretty vague because your value range is not valueable anymore against his value 4b range. Hands like QQ have to be called vs a reasonable 4b range, for instance.

3-4% 3b vs UTG is probably good.


UpUpAndAway 10 years, 6 months ago
Just to make sure I'm following correctly, would this 1:1 value to bluff combo ratio be for your 3bet in every position or would it ever chang based on what position youre 3betting?



EluSiVeMark 10 years, 6 months ago
I would change it bases on positions, my image, villains tendecies and other players behind you.
So when someone folds a lot vs 3bets we bluff more. When someone calls a lot vs 3bets, we increase our valuerange a1nd decrease our bluffs. When we have active cold 4betters we decrease our bluffingrange.

etcetc


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