Hero call river?
Posted by Chael Sonnen
Posted by
Chael Sonnen
posted in
Mid Stakes
Hero call river?
SB: Hero: $402
BB: Villian: $428
HJ: ew8fh: $160
CO: TheWakko: $439.03
BN: Pappe_Ruk: $403.19
BB: Villian: $428
HJ: ew8fh: $160
CO: TheWakko: $439.03
BN: Pappe_Ruk: $403.19
I was spewing around a bit in these couple of sessions at 2/4, and I'm a bit embarrased to even mention my opponent, lol.
For some reason I kept making ridiculous plays and bad call downs to cofirm my reads that they had a hand that beat me, but still called.
That happens when you move up and you have guys in the player pool who play 50/100. You want to show you belong there so badly that you completely forgot about the game you've been playing before
Villian hadn't seen me around.
I was not the table fish btw. This was an all-reg game that had already been running and nobody tried to sit.
For some reason I kept making ridiculous plays and bad call downs to cofirm my reads that they had a hand that beat me, but still called.
That happens when you move up and you have guys in the player pool who play 50/100. You want to show you belong there so badly that you completely forgot about the game you've been playing before
Villian hadn't seen me around.
I was not the table fish btw. This was an all-reg game that had already been running and nobody tried to sit.
Preflop
($6.00)
(5 Players)
Hero was dealt
Q
Q
ew8fh folds, TheWakko folds, Pappe_Ruk folds, Hero raises to $12, Villian calls $8
ew8fh folds, TheWakko folds, Pappe_Ruk folds, Hero raises to $12, Villian calls $8
Flop
($26.00)
J
5
7
(2 Players)
Hero bets $16,
Villian raises to $57.73,
Hero calls $41.73
His range probably looks like 55/77, spades, maybe AJ, 68/98/T9, 5s Xs, Js, J5s, probably not 57s I guess, QKhh, As X.
Turn
($141.46)
J
5
7
8
(2 Players)
Hero checks,
Villian bets $103.86,
Hero calls $103.86
Flush draw and some SDs get there, but I don't think I can fold yet.
He probably 3-bets good suited Aces and suited Kings, and against every other flush I have a redraw.
And he can still have some semi-bluffs, bluff with backdoor equity, especially the As X hand.
And if he had a set or two pair, he probably checks behind on the turn.
Should I fold if I don't have the Qs, and call when I do?
He probably 3-bets good suited Aces and suited Kings, and against every other flush I have a redraw.
And he can still have some semi-bluffs, bluff with backdoor equity, especially the As X hand.
And if he had a set or two pair, he probably checks behind on the turn.
Should I fold if I don't have the Qs, and call when I do?
River
($349.18)
J
5
7
8
4
(2 Players)
Hero checks,
Villian bets $254.41, and is all in,
Hero folds
His value range should be exclusively flushes, because we can have them as well, so it's hard to value bet a set or straight.
And given what I said about his 3-betting big suited Ax and Kx, and the board blocking some of his connected spades that he calls pre-flop, his value range should be very narrow.
It's not a good spot for him to turn something like two pair into a bluff, because he'd have no blockers, and we're still kind of uncapped. And also because he has showdown value.
The deciding factor in my fold was his turn bet sizing. If I had a big flush, I would not bet this big and leave 254/349 left. So it makes me suspect he has a lower flush.
A lower flush also makes sense because he raised the flop, whereas a lot of players seem to call more with Ahigh FDs.
Thoughts?
And given what I said about his 3-betting big suited Ax and Kx, and the board blocking some of his connected spades that he calls pre-flop, his value range should be very narrow.
It's not a good spot for him to turn something like two pair into a bluff, because he'd have no blockers, and we're still kind of uncapped. And also because he has showdown value.
The deciding factor in my fold was his turn bet sizing. If I had a big flush, I would not bet this big and leave 254/349 left. So it makes me suspect he has a lower flush.
A lower flush also makes sense because he raised the flop, whereas a lot of players seem to call more with Ahigh FDs.
Thoughts?
Final Pot
Villian
wins $344.38
Loading 15 Comments...
I agree with your fold, because I don't think villain would 3 barrel us with worse than a flush. We're basically representing exactly the type of hand we have, the lowest part of our range in this spot being a weirdly played AJ that called down flop and turn.
Villain's not going to be barreling us on the turn and river with worse than a flush, and I doubt he would try to bluff on such a draw heavy board.
Is there any reason why you didn't reraise the flop? I think that's what I would have done, to try to represent a strong draw and get it in against a jack/weak draw.
If I 3-bet/call, I'm stacking off against 55/77/J5/J7, maybe big spades, combo draws.
Against that range, I'm not doing well.
Would do it if I didn't have the Qs (less protection, more semi-bluffs for Villian), Villian stacks off light in this spot.
That's true, I didn't about how our hand affects our opponent's range.
Interesting question is also what to do if A or K of spades hit river
Never folding on either, because most of his flushes now lose to my Qhigh flush, and the As hitting would remove a lot of semi-bluffs.
I think the decision is between donk shoving and c/c'ing.
what if K hit and he shoved ? i m just wondering kinda can't make up my mind
No chance your ahead on this river when he ships it. I may be way off base but I think he has only flushes and probably not the nuts. I don't hate the way it was played at all besides I would probably try to figure out some way to save money on the turn. Can we b/f the turn? I also was wondering what we do if the Ks hits the river and villain ships it in our face?
feels like exploitable spot~ board wise and against your probable range ~
its just a stupid feeling…like he is playing the board which flushed and your probable holdings that unless suited exact color simply can't call..on other hand he maybe using same to make you feel like that and call your strong pair when his wide range at spot hit board somehow better then pair, i can't make up my mind whats good to do
On the flop I don't like the c/c. Too many turns put you in a bad situation oop when you've already taken a passive line. I'd much rather a C bet or c/r.
With the range you listed on the flop I don't really understand why you're c/c the turn. A good portion of the range you put him on hits and if he doesn't you make it easy to fire a 2nd barrel on the scare card with your passive check. I'd c/r and most likely fold if he ships. C/ring serves a dual purpose in my eyes. You turn your hand into a bluff if he has 2 pair and may get more value out of AsJx, KsJx.
OTR I think I'd call as played. You check called 2 streets already and obviously didn't put him on a straight or flush on the turn, so the only thing you have to worry about is 6x which is a very small part of his range. After you were passive on 2 streets he should be firing the river almost always in my mind. This situation is what makes c/cing the turn a bad play. Like NoHubris said, your hand is pretty face up. He can and should be shoving the river with a lot of hands given how transparent it is that you have a hand with showdown value, but aren't willing to get it in with. If you were, you would have done it ott.
"For some reason I kept making ridiculous plays and bad call downs to cofirm my reads that they had a hand that beat me, but still called."
I think you may have leveled yourself into a fold honestly.
I did c-bet the flop, and called his raise.
Though I don't agree that c/c'ing the flop is bad.
Oops lol, don't mind me. Answered the phone in the middle of reading haha. In that case I'm either shoving or folding the turn. Not calling to fold the river on a card that only hits a small portion of his range. As played still calling river.
mmm IMHO you can't call that turn bet just to fold the river, looks like you call the turn bet because you think you QQ is still good, so I think you should call almost any river as played. Also if a spade comes, he's probably folding to any river bet, or just checking behind so you won't get anything if you hit the flush
You have like 35% against the range you mentioned (excluding AJ which probably won´t hammer the turn), so a turnfold is definitely reasonable - and probably the right play, especially given the fact that you face reverse implied odds when you hit a spade.
If you had no spade, the turncall would just be blatantly bad.
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