Hand example ITT. Constructing balanced ranges/ Minimum defense frequency question
Posted by Puma1
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Puma1
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Hand example ITT. Constructing balanced ranges/ Minimum defense frequency question
I am currently working on constructing balanced ranges so I just need a check if I am thinking correct about this stuff/ not making any blunders or missing something.
HAND EXAMPLE:
We open the following range from the CO to 3bb: 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo 318/1326 (23.98%)
We get 3b by BTN to 9bb, for the purposes of my question his range isn't importaint here.
We have the following strategy CO vs BTN 3b:
This is the range we defend(34% of our opening range) so that we dont overfold vs BTN 3b.
99+, AK, AQ, KQ, AJ s,A2s-A5s(16c) , KJ s, =108 combos
We 4b 40 combos in total with balanced frequency
4b AA, KK, 12 combos of AKo for value and balance with A2s-A5s resulting in 24:16 ratio of value:bluff
That leaves us with 68 combos in our flatting range: QQ-99, AJs+, KJs+, AQo, KQo
Flop comes T23r and our opponent bets 1/2 pot. According to Minimum defense frequency(MDF) we have to call 67% of our flatting range in order to prevent him to print money by overbluffing.
67% of our 68 combos in flatting range is 45 combos and to me it seams best candidates are 99-QQ(24 combos) AKs(4 combos) AQ(16 combos) =44 combos
So those 44 combos should call the flop and we proceed with same thought process on the turn etc... Of course as we get reads on our opponents we make exploitative adjustments
Is everything ok here or did I make any blunders/missunderstand some stuff?
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There's one big mistake - or more precise, one point you're missing - in your thought process: as long, as you defend passively (by calling instead of raising), your opponent gets the chance to see a flop / turn ...
That adds further EV to his bluffs!
The additional EV forces your defense strategy to go up to keep him from rolling over you (= "keeping him indifferent between bluffing and giving up").
Just as a pure exaample: If we were 4-betting your entire preflop defense range, Villain would be moreless 0EV when 3-betting. If we follow your real preflop strategy though and assume that you got 90% equity realisation when you call with your given range, BTN makes at least a whopping 150bb / 100 with any two!
Summary: MDF only holds true for aggressive defenses, calls count less towards defense frequencies, so you got to call more.
MDF is for heads-up situations and then still if there no more betting rounds etc.
One does not have to defend here as if the situation is heads up. The BTN 3 bets and there are also the SB and BB that can 4 bet or call the 3 bet, so hero is not the only one that can punish the villain bluffs and thus MDF does not hold up at all in this situation.
I see, but how do I precisely calculate how much to defend than. Could you give me an estimate with this hand I posted?
You make an estimate or read a good book about poker. Or trial and error or make an educated guess as most people would. E.g. what 4bet % would you SB and BB give (I would give them like 3%) and subtract that figure from MDF. Also when OOP as is the case here assume that you mostly 4 bet and don't call a 3 bet, making that MDF holds up more.
So in this particular case I would estimate that you need to defend about 34% - 2 x 3% = 28% of the time with a 4 bet.
Choosing the % of bluff in your 4 bet is complicated as it would need to make the villain indifferent on his defense range to add bluffs. Could assume that villain 5 bets as defense and then you can calculate the EV of his bluffs (giving the fact that you fold yours). This will tell you how much bluffs you could add if villain 5 bets defense always.
Oh forgot about the removal effect that is also something to consider for all variations. SO if BTN 3 bets he will have a removal effect on SB and BB 4 betting range so the amount is less then 3%
Btw there are complete books written about poker theory if your interested I could recommend "APPLICATIONS of No-Limit Hold'em by Matthew Janda"
There's no clearcut formula how to calculate this (insofar akissv7 is basically right), you can just try to come with a good guess.
A "simple" (at least when trained to) way to get to it is CardrunnersEV (some - especially some of my students - will roll their eyes now, as they just waited for me to bring that up - but hey, it's true!! :D). There you can easily play around with ranges and calculate the resulting EV.
If you wanna do it with pen and paper, just look at it like this: Villain 3bets with 32o. You call with your regular defense range (for calling). Say, Villain has ~27% equity postflop, of which he realizes 110% (as being the aggressor, hence showing the stronger range, being IP etc.). That gives him 30% equity. The pot after him 3-betting and you flatting is 19.5bb. 30% of these makes an EV (equity-share) of roughly 6bb. As Villain invested 9bb to get there, he loses 3bb when his 3bet was not successful preflop. So, this is your new baseline!
So, come up with an EV-formula where Villain loses 9bb if you 4bet and 3bb if you call. That's the MDF. And then you can subtract some percentage again for the chance of SB and BB "supporting" your defense work by calling / cold-4-betting. Try to add some reasonable numbers for these as well. Then combine that altogether and you will get an answer.
Not an easy task - but hey, who said, Poker were easy? :)
BigFiszh
Alright thanks to both of you for helping me, just one more thing I just downloaded CREV and it does seam to allow some trial calculations before purchasing. Is there any video out there that shows how to use the program?
Actually now that I have checked and compared price of poker software since GTO+ is basically the same price as CREV doesn't it make more sense to purchase GTO +?
GTO+ is a solver, you don't want / need a solver, you need a tool that lets you learn. A solver is no learning tool.
You neither use a pocket calculator to learn math, huh? ;-)
Alright just one more thing. I have some experience playing full ring pokrr and winning some money by being around breakeven at NL25/50 and collecting bonuses rakeback. I decided I want to learn 6max poker and in my limited experience I found it much more challenging than full ring and I am currently slightly loosing/ maybe breakeven on NL10 6max. Basically I am trying to go about learning the game from scratch and build a strong fundamental base, unfortunatly I currently dont have money for a coach. So having in mind I am at the bottom of NL limits do you still feel I should purchase CREV and study the game this way or are there any other things that I should focus at this stage since I assume that I must have quite glaring leaks since I am not beating NL10. In a nutshell I am asking for a rough plan on how would you approach improving if you were in my situation as in what software would you use how would a study session look like etc....
You should not use MDF this way.
MDF is for situation where the range is so polarized that villain will win with all his value hands and loose with all his bluffs. That is by far not the case preflop and also not on the flop. MDF is good for river situations where the villain either bluffs or has a value hand. Meaning when you defend with the top X% of your range those hands will beat all his bluffs.
Use MDF on the river mostly vs good opponents or completely unknown . Vs bad/weak opponents better to check stats and deviate from that.
On the flop MDF is not working at most due factor that one range is generally much stronger than other so there are no gaining EV of calling % we need
edit: mistyped EQ realization (instead of one range stronger than another)
MDF is always a viable baseline, but as I mentioned, we have to consider additional parameters.
Just as a point about software: if you buy GTO+, you get a free license for CREV.
You can technically do most of the things you do in CREV, in GTO+ as well (using node locking). However, CREV is nice because you have to input the various strategies yourself instead of a solver doing it for you. So, it's good to build intuition.
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