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GTO Wizard - explanations :)

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GTO Wizard - explanations :)

Hello.

Can someone explain to me what EV means in this program? Does it mean bb/100 hands or what is meant?

What EV hands do you think I should start to open/call if I don't have enough hands to know what is right?
Thanks

6 Comments

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HawksWin 2 years, 3 months ago

I have never used Wizard.

What are the parameters of this grid? What is the RFI sizing? What is the rake structure? Is this position specific? Different parameters are going to produce different results. Just looking at numbers without the specifics is useless. We know AA is going to win tons of bb's and 72o is going to lose tons of bb's.

Imagine your RFI for 3bb always with AA, you are naturally going to win more bb's than if you always raised it first in for 2bb.

The logic behind GTO based raise first in charts is that, based on the position, solvers will raise the hands that expect to have positive results and will fold the hands that don't. In other words, they essentially find the breakeven point and that establishes the raise or fold threshold.

In the example above, JTs is right on that line based on the parameters in Wizard. That is why in most GTO charts (6 max), JTs is right towards the bottom of the RFI range (many UTG RFI ranges will have J9s as the bottom). As we get closer to the button, JTs is going to perform better. There are less players so you will win the blinds uncontested more often, you are less likely to be called (players have folded) and you are less likely to be 3b (again, players have folded). So, while JTs might be close to the bottom of the range UTG, it becomes much more profitable as you get closer to the button. On the button, we likely open J4s/J5s (using Jx suited as the example).

I would look at Wizards GTO RFI ranges for 50NL (highest rake) and start there as far as opens go.

The easy way to think about it is to ask "is this hand profitable (+ev) to RFI based on the position I am in and the rake?" If the answer is yes, raise it. If the answer is no, fold it.

A good way to test this is to filter your sample for a particular hand. I have a massive database accumulated over the years so the sample is becoming more and more accurate and reliable as it grows.

For example, using JTs:

My pool has been dealt JTs 26,678 times and their winrate is -.34bb/hand.

I personally have been dealt JTs 4720 times and my winrate is .20bb/hand.

This is not filtered by stake, sizing or position.

If I put the pool on the BTN and give them JTs, they have a winrate of .23bb/hand.

If I filter for myself on the BTN and give myself JTs, I have a winrate of .97bb/hand.

My simple advice would be:

1) Use Wizard's RFI ranges for the most part.

2) Data tells us that these pools are tighter than GTO when they 3b so play tighter when you face pools aggression (especially 3b/4b/5b).

3) Build a sample where you can filter for particular hands (JTs, AA, etc) and you will establish if you are winning/breaking even/losing with tangible data. Just because a chart says a hand is +ev, doesn't mean it is in reality. A good example is if you filter for 33/22 UTG, you see you are losing $$$$$$ when you raise them. Why are you raising them if you aren't making $$$$? Then, you look closer and see that a substantial amount of $$$$$ lost came from 2 hands where you flopped a set and someone flopped a bigger set or binked a 4 straight or 4 flush.

4) Use what you find to tweak the Wizard ranges so that you are cutting out the hands that lose you money and keeping in the hands that make you money.

5) You will now have concrete data to base your decisions on. Just because a chart says it is profitable doesn't mean that it is in reality. Only the data can tell you that.

TK1991 2 years, 3 months ago

I would look at Wizards GTO RFI ranges for 50NL (highest rake) and start there as far as opens go.

If I follow this GTO , my rfi on utg is only about 7.5% (NL50, open sizing 3bb). It is OK? The gto itself advises me to play hands 2x more for the sake of balance, but I'm human and I wouldn't play that if I also play hands with -ev. Even JTs has 0ev. He probably advises like this because of the rake. When I turn on the NL500, JTs is suddenly +0.05EV.

I play NL10. Should I seriously start playing this tight here?

Thanks

HawksWin 2 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, it's the rake. 7.5% is quite tight. I was struggling before with being called by In Position players (I would RFI UTG and get called by BTN) and feeling like I was in no man's land. As you are learning and progressing, I would use like 14%-17% UTG, 16% to 19% MP, 25% or so CO and high 30's/low 40's OTB and in the SB.

So, the problem with playing super tight in environments that can be tracked by database software is that you become super easy to play against. So, if I knew you were opening super tight in early position, I would over fold vs you except for when I was in the blinds. Nut peddling becomes more attractive and I will likely extract more money when I flop nutted (think set of 6's on A62r) vs your strong pairs.

My pool is anonymous so I tightened up in EP/MP substantially and gradually loosened up as I figured out how to navigate better in pots where I was called by in position players.

TK1991 2 years, 3 months ago

One more question. GTO claims that? The larger sizing I use, the fewer hands I have to open. Would it be ok to open 3bb everywhere to make the game easier? or 2.5bb?

Most hands lose ev if I use a higher sizing. In addition to hands like AA, KK, etc.

Why do people actually complicate the preflop game by using different sizing in each position?

HawksWin 2 years, 3 months ago

Again, there are different approaches. I have found that playing tight in EP/MP and using a min open to work better for me than opening big in EP and smaller in LP. Also, in my anonymous pool, I don't ever use the small sizing with the top of my PF range (so I use 3bb everywhere with like AA-TT, AK, AQ). If I am utg with AA, it's 3bb. If I am utg with 55, I use 2bb. They can't track me and I rarely get more than 100 hand samples on any particular player.

In pools where you can be tracked, you need to be more consistent with sizing.

I would say the best way to do it is to experiment. Try the smaller sizing UTG and then get bigger as you approach the button.

tombos21 2 years, 2 months ago

EV is displayed in big blinds per hand. Multiply by 100 to get bb/100.

Looking at the URL this appears to be NL50 6max with a 2.5bb open from UTG? It's much easier to see the EV using the Strategy+EV view in the solution browser:

Playing only 7.5% of hands is ridiculously tight UTG. Maybe that's okay as a low-stakes exploit but feels very nitty. I'd recommend shaving off any hand less than 0.02bb if you want to play tight.

The GTO range for a LJ high-rake 3bb open looks strange. It's very top-heavy / blocker-heavy as the solver assumes you'd only really get action if someone 3bets. So the solver optimizes for hands that block 3bets rather than postflop playability.

I don't recommend this above range in practice. But that's the answer a solver will give if you ask it how to open 3bb from LJ in a high-rake scenario.

Your nitty 7.5% open might be a decent exploit if your opponents don't fold too much. I generally recommend opening tighter from EP than GTO recommends, as the low-stakes population doesn't fold enough preflop. But 7.5% is very tight.

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