Flopzilla; Cbet Range Construction
Posted by Regularblue
Posted by
Regularblue
posted in
Low Stakes
Flopzilla; Cbet Range Construction
Intro:
I am currently attempting to work on my Cbetting strategy when in position, though this is not one of my weakest areas, I am now aware that I have a considerable amount of Cbetting leaks in my game, and although on the surface these missed spots don't look like they will matter, over the long run these spots will all add up and in turn will eventually drag down my overall winrate.
I currently Cbet at an approximate rate of 50% when in position, I.e. on the Btn.
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Plan & Questions:
1. Spend 30 minutes to 1 hour a day working on understanding range Vs range equity distributions on different flop textures, and how much of my opponents range can continue on different textures. In the following scenario: Btn (Hero) opens 2.5x, BB flats.
Here is a link to the different textures I will be analysing; Link
I was wondering if any one has any input in regards to a having a better structure of board textures for this analysis??
2. During this analysis, I plan to ensure that I remember the majority of what I have learnt in the time studying. However, this produces a problem; how can I fully optimise my study time, I feel like I will need to write down the knowledge I have gained on each board texture in order to fully ingrain what I have learnt. Though I am struggling to see how I can actually do this in a structured fashion, in other words I don't want pages of mumbo jumbo written down that when I refer to later I will struggle to see the points being made.
So I am asking for help in terms of what ideas people have for optimising my learning process and the structure you would suggest using? given that my learning style tends to need things to be written down as I personally find it difficult to just look at something and fully remember it.
**Update**
In regards to number 2. This is what I have come up with in relation to structuring my learning process, would you add or change anything to this table??
Chart
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Any other ideas and tips in terms of this type of analysis is more than welcome, I am sure I have more than just two questions, so please feel free to give advise in all aspects of the subject.
Thanks :)
Loading 17 Comments...
I think you are making a ''mistake'' analyzing monotone flops since they almost never happen. I would focus on the most high frequency flops first.
This is a good point, and I will consider not analysing monotone flops as often if my daily analysis starts to take too much time. However if it doesn't make the process vastly more time consuming, it will generally be more beneficial to consider filling out all parts of the chart.
Thanks.
Hi,
I have been thinking about doing flop analysis myself to try to get a better idea of what my ranges look like. I think Insilicio makes a very good point: Some flops are much more common than others, another example:
A-high flops (Axx) -> 20%
9-high flops (9xx) -> 7%
I was trying to come up with some sort of classification myself and I found a few threads that may help you or at least give you something to think about:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15/poker-theory/can-someone-give-me-exhaustive-list-all-flop-possible-texas-holdem-plz-thanks-guys-864888/ (See posts by Plexiq (#10) and Erdnase17 (#31))
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15/poker-theory/statistical-analysis-flops-633448/(See posts by Spadebidder)
This guy actually has his own website and he's done some very interesting research: http://www.spadebidder.com/category/flop-analysis/ (maybe part 7 is the most relevant here)
I haven't done much work yet, I am still unsure how to organize the data/analysis myself. I believe Odds Oracle can generate graphs, which would be much more appealing to me. I don't want to end up with walls of texts either. I'll think about it some more and post if I come up with something.
Thank you for the ideas and the links, the spadebidder site is very interesting and I will have to find the time to read through all of the articles there.
2+2 tilts me just reading it :p I am thankful that runitonce is nothing like what has happened to that community. Nonetheless thankyou for the links from 2+2 aswell :)
If you could post whatever you come up with on this page, I would really apprieciate it. I will continue to update this page with my progress so that people who are interested can follow along and hopefully gain something from all of this.
Thanks again!
Dont u think CREV will be more helpful for this? Atleast thats what I started working with even though I am still clueless quite a bit
CREV will allow you to go more indepth and consider the implications of different cards on later streets with much greater accuracy than Flopzilla. However, CREV is far more time consuming, and for the purpose of this type of analysis I believe it is overkill. At least for now, looking at Flopzilla will be more beneficial and I will get through more aspects of the subject in a shorter time period.
I.e. I am going for the approach 'its good enough' for now, and when I have built a better understanding of textures and range strength/disruibutions, then I will dive into the more complicated CREV side of analysis in order to 'nit pick' and strengthen my knowledge further.
What limits do u play?
Euro 100NL Ipoker speed, have played up to 200NL on stars.
Seems worth it to use crev then? Also 100nl speed doesnt run that often right? Why did u make the switch?
I play 3-6k hands a day, it runs more often than the regular tables. 200 speed never runs though.
Like I said, CREV is hugely time consuming, and I have alot of the fundamental to get down regarding flop textures in accordance with range Vs range strength. So for now I am going to stick to Flopzilla, its alot quicker for this kind of work, and the results are good even if it does not produce such precise results as CREV. I use CREV for other types of analysis, when I am more concerned with flop, turn and river.
I made the switch due to a coaching deal I made when I was transitioning from MTT's to 6max cash. I have just stayed on the site due to getting 90-100% rakeback. Although I am going to move site to a less raked/fishier player pool the end of next month. Not sure which site, but maybe a mix or just zoom on Stars. I am not really sure what site to switch to, have to ask around I guess...
I agree that CREV looks much more complicated but the problem I see with Flopzilla is that it doesn't do range vs range analysis. Have you ever heard of Poker Ranger? Looks really good for this kind of analysis: http://www.pokerranger.net/Features.
It does Range vs Range calculations and also "heatmaps", which looks really nice. I think it would make it much easier because instead of writting everything down, you could take screenshots and include them in your excel files or whatever program you use.
Yeah, I usually just open 2 flopzilla's at once and have them side by side, in order to compare ranges. I have tested out Poker ranger a little in the past, but never really gave it much notice. I will check it out again, maybe the software has been updated since then, the 'heatmaps' sound interesting.
Thanks!
CREV is a very complex tool, BUT, for the purposes of this exercise you propose in the OP, it is much simpler and quicker.
Would you mind going more in detail, in regards to how it is quicker and simpler? what method would you employ that would make things so much quicker.
I personally find that the visual aesthetics of Flopzilla make it far quicker to see exactly what a players range consists of.
I am open to using CREV, just the way I currently approach working with the program thigns are goign to take way longer and will be much more complicated. Perhaps I am doing something different from you..........
I'd like to know why you think this is the case as well because it doesn't get much simpler than Flopzilla.
Are there any free programs that determine the frequency of certain flop textures? Like the ~20% Axx ~7% 9xx
http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/most-useful-poker-softwares/ (last post)
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