Flop sizing in 3b Pot

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Flop sizing in 3b Pot

50NL Global

HJ raises to 3x, 100bb, and is more of a recreational

Hero has AdKh on BB and raises to 11bb, HJ calls

Flop JhTh6d

Flop sizing?

My analysis here is that we want to have some checks here given IP likely has full combos of JJ/TT and probably some 66, while we have only JJ, and a small amount of TT, as some are being flatted preflop

It seems like our ranges will be quite similar, but with him maybe having a bit more offsuit combos of things like AQo.
Given all this, it seems like he will have a slight nut advantage, with our equities being similar. (first impression)

When I ran a SIM however, PIO seemed to be using a half pot sizing and betting basically range.

My action in hand was a 1/3 flop sizing, because of A) he has more absolute nuts, and equities will change alot on turn for specific parts of my range... Say overpairs on a heart, 9, T, J turn.

What am I doing wrong that my thought process is coming up with wanting to use small bets/checks when PIO is suggesting a larger bet size/and a high flop betting frequency?

10 Comments

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Jeff_ 4 years, 11 months ago

and equities will change alot on turn for specific parts of my
range... Say overpairs on a heart, 9, T, J turn.

it is the reason for big bets. JTxd is somewhat classic example of big bet flop and overshove turn (on some cards) BB/BU or SB/BU. However similar thoughts process goes here too, maybe less shoving on the turn but still.
Range bet has to do with (maybe wrong ranges? Too tight for OOP (should be around 9%) and too wide for IP or having too many PP/SC (maybe 10-11%)). Can be many of factors: maybe IP realizing too much equity and betting little IP so checking doesn't appeal as good option. But I belive you if you look EV of the strategies most hands will be indifferent EV between check or bet

Meliodas 4 years, 11 months ago

Disagree about shoving JT OTT after cbet big flop (interested in being proven wrong), but totally agree with your analysis on why he could have these kind of outcome in his simulation.

Jeff_ 4 years, 11 months ago

Don't think I said anything about combos which I would shove.

JTxd

That's just flop texture JTx with a flush draw. HU and in late positions overbetting flop and some shoving on the turn(on some cards) is quite nice line.

Ryan 4 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, I think you're right on the preflop range affecting the postflop tree.
Looking at this hand, I realized how nitty my BB vs HJ 3b range has been lol. Definitely going to influence post flop tree

As for the big bet thing, I was under the impression that big bets on wet flops was more a thing while being IP and less so OOP, as say we wet "big" on flop, and when we get bad run outs, it's harder to control the pot size not having position.

Also, what method are you using to come up with 9%? I've been working on widening my 3b ranges in some spots, and not entirely sure where the cut offs are

Jeff_

Jeff_ 4 years, 11 months ago

it is just approximate number of GTO(monker) ranges. Vs 3x we want to 3bet slightly more and defend tight as call, so maybe around 10-11% 3bet would be good strategy.

Ryan 4 years, 11 months ago

But how are you coming to this conclusion? Purely based on monker choosing to 3b this % against X ranges in Y positions? Just wondering if there is a method I can apply while constructing my ranges and I could use going thru each situation in flopzilla for example....

Jeff_ 4 years, 11 months ago

vs small raise we can call much more and less dead money to be taken by 3betting(+struggle with big SPR OOP).
While vs 3x we definitely 3betting more as dead money/taking without rake is pretty valuable.

Gino Song 4 years, 11 months ago

Snowie thinks betting half pot is optimal, and betting 1/4 has the same EV has betting half pot but is suboptimal. The problem is you are a human being using a human brain to fish reasons to do things and justify your actions.

Scientifik 4 years, 11 months ago

I suspect you are the one that is supposed to bet more because you being the three bettor should have a range advantage even though your nut advantage is similar to the IP caller. Also you probably don't want to check back too much on that flop after 3-betting pre because it will leave you folding too many hands that do have equity like your AK in this case. Turning this hand into a bluff seems reasonable to me. You have 3 cards to the nuts 1 to a strong value hand and 6 outs to a solid showdown defense. I definitely don't like 1/3rd pot there though. If you are going to bet that OOP I would think even more than 1/2 pot would be appropriate. What sizes did you give PIO to choose from?

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