50nl homegame: Donk bet from sb in a 3 way pot on a draw heavy board
Posted by gorillav
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gorillav
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Low Stakes
50nl homegame: Donk bet from sb in a 3 way pot on a draw heavy board
So here is a hand I played recently
stakes .25/.50
I am dealt QxJs in hj and open to 1.50, co calls, sb calls.
Pot $5
stack sizes: co: $30, sb: $100, hero in hj: $90
Flop comes Qs9s8x
sb leads for $2, I decide to raise to $7 and then the player in the co tanks and ships all in for $30, the sb folds, I decide to call
how should I respond to this donk bet?
Calling seems bad to me since I allow many high equity draws that the sb has to see the turn for free. Additionally, I know that if I call here and cap my range that the sb will punish me with a large turn and river bet.
Folding seems bad because I have a good hand that beats many draws.
Raising seems bad because I have a player behind me that can ship with many high equity draws and nut type hands which I'm at best chopping with. Also by reraising I allow the sb to go all in with his made hands and high equity draws which I'm not doing too well against.
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These questions are hard to answer unless you provide some information about ranges (yours and Villain's).
In general, your hand has so much equity that it's hard to fold here. Top pair, gutshot, backdoor flush draw. You only need to be good 23 / 67 or 33% of the time.
Calling flop is fine, by the way. There are not many bad turns for you. SB may be donking with all sorts of junk and you want to keep him in because your hand has so much equity he is likely drawing nearly dead.
sb is a very good player and in this spot probably has a standard sb range which is pretty tight, co plays almost any two and in this case had T3s which is almost a flip against my hand
Do you mean T3 of spades? You aren't flipping: you have 60% equity against that hand. Anyway, you only need 33% or so, so it doesn't matter either way. If he showed up with T3s, he could have all sorts of junk in his range.
If SB is a good player, you should tend to just call because he'll play really well against a raise. But raising is ok. Your hand just so much equity that pretty much anything is fine. Raising made CO spazz and jam here, so it worked out well for you.
Which hand are you hoping to get value from? You're in position on a dynamic board, if anything small blind is going to struggle more when the board texture changes. You shouldn't be looking to just ship it all in and realise your equity just because the board is fairly wet and you think turns and rivers might get tricky - especially when we're in position. Also your hand just has such an easy time getting to showdown with the gutshot and BDFD that we really don't need to worry about getting blown off our equity without seeing a river card if we just flat here.
I've been thinking about the hand more and I think I'm unbalanced in my calling range and that I don't have any monsters. If I call here and the person behind me folds I fully expect an overbet on the turn from the sb. I don't think I can call a huge bet on the turn.
I raise all of my sets, straights, and two pairs so if I only call I don't have any of those hands. I'm thinking of bringing some monster hands into my calling range that have blockers to the flush draw but I don't know if I'm losing ev by doing this.
Calling monsters is not how we stop ourselves getting abused on the turn on a dynamic board, we do that by having sufficient board coverage that we improve to have new monsters on enough turn cards and when it bricks off really hard we're supposed to get shoved around a little bit but hands like this are the ones that we use as our slam dunk call downs to the river. I really don't think the message that you should take from this is slowplay more because that's really counter productive and loses us a lot of EV. You want to start calling your monsters to protect your range when SPR is really short and you're in position so the money is going in anyway. If you look at how pio plays at deep SPRs the number one priority tends to be getting money into the pot with your good hands and everything else including board coverage and range protection tends to take a back seat to that. Also having traps actually doesn't change much, until traps become something like 13% (if I remember correctly) of your calling range on the previous street villain is still supposed to keep bullying you with over bets and then when you stack them with a trap you were often going to stack off with them anyway.
If the board was much more static then we can protect our range a bit because we're not going to have many new monsters on the turn but I'm still not a fan of making this a big part of your game, I think it's much more beneficial particularly in the long run to get used to making the more marginal calldowns (even crying calls) with the right hands than it is to just sit there and fold them because "I'll have trapped sets here he can't exploit me" which is honestly just a lie to tell yourself when the betting gets scary.
And just in case you needed any more convincing when you call bets from a theory perspective you are supposed to condense your range (lose a lot of the worst hands and a few of the best) and as such will often have an equity advantage going into the turn which is enough to offset your nut disadvantage.
Thank you for this post its really good
No worries, glad it was useful
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