Defining Bottom of Call Range Closing Action as BB Mult-Way
Posted by Ryan
Posted by
Ryan
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Mid Stakes
Defining Bottom of Call Range Closing Action as BB Mult-Way
Hey guys, this is a spot that comes up often that I am not confident about.
Basically, I am playing a live 1-3 or 2-5 Game, and a player opens say 3.3x($10 @ 1-3) from MP, he gets like 3-4 calls, and I am on BB with a variety of different hands; Q4s, 64s, KQo, K6s, etc.... I am not sure where to draw the line in this multiway situations preflop.
On one hand I am getting good price and closing action, but on the other I am out of position in very multiway pot with relatively weak holdings, and I suspect a hand like 64s is not going to make much when I actually do make a flush as in a multiway pot people are going to be more timid of flushes.
Something like KQo is going to play pretty poorly OOP multiway as well, but I suspect might have a bit more value given it can dominate other hands that players may find themselves cold calling, so I could see this hand being slightly better than a 64s, even if not by much.
I wish there was a more concrete way to showcase this, but discussion here might be helpful..
Appreciate it,
Kind regards, Ryan
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When I looked at preflop sims for online play it turns out that most people are overcalling BB because "odds".
But a sim is actually tighter in the BB if there's more callers. Going closer and closer to a 3bet or fold strategy.
What I assume the reasons are:
- Despite the odds we have a hard time realizing those odds.
- Multiway means someone else likely making a hand as well. Our weaker calls don't make a strong hand often. So when we do make something we might just be dominated too often.
- Still wants a 3bet range, more money in the pot allows to be more aggressive to punish.
Now live is a different beast. I'm not sure how your live stakes are regarding reaction to 3bets or cold calling ranges. Their cold call might be wider but include stronger hands. Their reaction to 3bets might be to call much more than they should. Etc... .
Yeah, I’d say the first assumption is true. They will cal wide, but also flat a lot of hands they could 3b like AK, so squeezes become a bit more dangerous imo with too wide a range....
To a 3b, calling or folding is the most common response. Mostly only getting 4b from KK+.... which actually would make squeezing wider more okay I guess
The one thing that stands out tho is the skill edge. Like say a sim shows to fold KQo in this spot, but that’s also assuming good play postflop. Like there are a lot of scenarios where a player in the mix is liable to make big mistakes, so that prob makes some of the marginal situations with big cards (KQo) more reasonable I’d guess. But the dominated weak flush draws prob will not good enough as they flop weak pairs and make weak flushes that will be hard to get paid off of
I wonder about things like 76s too. Where it’s appealing with the odds and having a suited connector, but you still just flop mediocre draws and weak two pairs. It’s like if I fold 76s, where do I draw the line.
If there’s a player involved I have implied odds against that’s ones thing, but without them in the hand, that’s when I feel it gets tricky
Sims are indeed tighter multiway than heads-up, but 3bet more.
I defend all broadways, all pocket pairs, all suited aces, suited connectors and suited one gappers, some suited kings. 3bet AK/AQ+ and big pairs for value and about half the broadways (mostly suited) and suited connectors as a bluff.
Yeah on my drive to the room yesterday I was discussing this, and concluded a range of something like 54s+ for connectors, suited Ax, suited K9s+, Maybe other suited kings, but not sure on this, depends I think on how weak some of the players in mix are, and then KQo region call and fold below.
I didn’t realize that suited connectors flop a oesd 1:8, so those can be pretty good when combined with flush ability too... wouldn’t be surprised if you can defend some gappers too, just not confident here so prob will fold something like 97s or 75s
Any idea why you see some of the Regs on things like Live @ the Bike defending hands that seems pretty weak... Can't think of anything specific off the top of my head, but remember seeing very questionable defends in past and not understanding why they would defend so wide(possible function of the players involved in game)
Deeper stacked? I haven't watched much live at the bike but these highstakes games tend to be deepstacked no?
Sometimes yes they are deeper, but don’t see how that would make something like 64s better, unless there is some implied odds function happening or exploit that most are just not aware of
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