Constructing pre flop ranges!!!
Posted by vayne
Posted by
vayne
posted in
Low Stakes
Constructing pre flop ranges!!!
Im going to start with my pre flop ranges from UTG and MP (Red = 4b Green = Call 3b IP Blue = OR and fold to 3B)
Obviusly depends a little bit on v and postions but Im using this ranges to guide my game...
Im trying to fold just 40% to 3b IP not sure if it´s a good number...
I also dont know what is a good % of 4b value and 4b bluff
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Your UTG and MP ranges are probably too wide on most tables, but you can often go this wide as an adjustment. I think you can remove KJo, 97s and T8s from UTG and KTo from MP. It is still on the looser side after removing those hands but the other hands are really close.
Defending 60% is probably a little too much even against 3x 3bets by IP. The equilibrium simulations I have seen fold around 45% when BB 3bet pot sized. BB is the position you should defend most against because there are no more players that can cold 4bet. I have seen some players playing quite high stakes fold very little to 3bets in these positions, but they play against players with much more aggro 3betting ranges. 22-55 is +EV calls if the 3bet size is on the smaller side.
A3s and A2s are probably too weak to call a 3bet with. QTs and KTs are very close in both positions and depends on villains range and size. All suited connectors are really close and calling them more than 50% of the time and less than 100% is probably correct in theory against most strategies.
TY for the reply!!!
pot sized it´s a little bit bigger than 3x, so I thin 40% should be ok against 3x? Im folding a little bit more against bigger sizings of course...
what do you think should be good OR % from UTG and MP?
It is probably reasonable against players 3betting more than 6%, but it is difficult to not make mistakes postflop OOP so you might not be able to play as wide as you should be able to do if you played perfectly postflop. Low pocket pairs are better calls against 3bets than low suited Ax and some of the other suited hands.
shit you blew by daily likes on this post :P
Stellar post, I agree for the most part!
The lovely thing about this game is that everything changes as time goes by and where you are.
Are you planning to play zoom at Stars? Reg tables? Bovada?
There is to much to talk about ranges, even with the more simple ones like UTG.
Here they are a couple of tips that I found:
- If playing zoom at Stars, fold 22 33 44 even 55 UTG. So your calling vs 3b should be smaller, depending on size.
- 4betting is so complex and it depends so much of who is 3betting you that putting all that combos probably leads to make a lot of mistakes. 3betting ranges vs UTG are often pretty tight. I strongly suggest start calling close to 100% with AKo. AKo is a hand that sometimes you are 4betting as a bluff and not for value.
- In general you won't get away with 4betting 12 combos of KQo, 6 combos of AA and 6 combos of KK, it's just too much value/bluff ratio 1:1. I would start with just 6 combos of KQo, to make it simple 4bet just KQo with K of spades, that would be 6 combos. Don't bluff that much, go for value.
- Fold 65s 76s and 97s pre UTG on tight tables, pretty hard to make profit of this hands.
- Same for A6s and A7s.
- 4betting range on MP is just too much cut more that half of bluffing combos.
- On MP fold QJo KTo 54s 65s J8s K9s Q9s on tight tables.
- Metagame dictates 3b calling range, I believe yours it's way too wide.
So numbers depend on numbers, be prepared to change your ranges depending on what and where you are playing.
Can you tell me how and why you construct your 4betting range? I believe I have some more useful tips.
Hope it helps!
Gl!
TY for the reply!!!
I think my main problem could be on the 4b ranges... and as I said Im not sure what is a good value/bluff ratio for my 4b ranges (I know value should be based on villians 3b%) I have been trying to build my 4b ranges with something around 30% and 45% bluff combos, in UTG I have only 12 (KQo) bluff combos against 24 (6 AA 6 KK 12 AKo) value combos so If I´m bluff heavy on UTG maybe all of my 4b ranges are way bluff heavy...
Thats why Im starting this post!!! because I want to know what are the numbers I should be looking for to build up strong and balanced ranges!!!!
As far as I know I have to defend around 60% against 3b (in fact a little bit more) and so far I´ve been doing pretty well defending against 3bets.
OTH
I dont think my OR ranges are THAT wide... Im openning around 19% from UTG and 22% from MP, I have seen regs way wider with something like 23% from UTG and 25 from MP...
yeah I feel more comfortable opening 17% and 20% but thats why Im working on my ranges!!!
Great! I'm glad it helps.
A few more questions.
What is a value combo? What does it mean that one combination is for value? For example when you 4bet someone.
Certainly don't need to defend 60% against 3b, and also depends on 3b range and size. So numbers depend on numbers, be very careful here and try to go deeper in this subject to understand why you do what you do.
Opening ranges also depend on how well people defend and 3b at the table, so there will be tables that you can get away with opening 20% UTG but it will be tables that you can just open 15%
when I say a value combo is because Im 4bet/calling with that combo!!!
and of course it depends a lot on sizings and villians, this is just a guideline!!!
Great, so how can a value combo can be -ev? Try to 4b/call with AKo 100% UTG, for me no good result at all. That modifies your entire preflop range. So AKo ends up being part of your bluffing range, thats why I said before you had a pretty wide 4b bluff. So to construct a range you must know that certain combo is ready to be a part of some group, like OR, 3b, Call to 3b, 4b/Value, 4/bluff, etc, because it is +ev.
So in order to apply some ranges profitably you have to learn how they work and why they work, so any baseline is modified by the enviorment that is played.
and what do you think about value/bluff ratio on 4bet ranges??? what do you think is a good % of bluffs???
probably u are right!! In fact I usually dont 4b AK from UTG or MP, but Im trying to expand my ranges and IDK how to expand my 4b without 4b AK
And why is that?
Poker is a process of observation. If you pay atetion close enough poker will tell you what to do, not the other way around. You can widen up or narrow your ranges because you want. That should be a consequence of studying and getting to a conclution.
I trully don't know the answer, people react in so many different ways to 4bets, I would start with a value/bluff ratio with the following idea. When I'm facing a 5bet from 22bbs to 100bbs I need to call at least 36% for not being exploited and win the hand 100% of the time. Because that will never happen I will say that when I call I would have something around 55-60% eq. so that leaves me 36% / 0.55 = 65.5 and 36% / 0.6 = 60% so I would have to end up calling something aroud 65 and 60%.
In conclution I would desing a range that lets me call 65 to 60% of the times with a 55 to 60% eq when I get shoved. But again, it depends on what people is doing, because you can desing a range that leaves you just 10% to call 5b because 4betting as a bluff any 2 cards is profitable.
Construct your 4b range and play against you! Try to see if you can exploit yourself, if not, you found a balanced strategy, then go to your favourite poker site and start making adjustmets for your convenience.
Depends on your stakes. At NL10 for example, there are always at least one fish at the table, so my default range ends up being an expanded one. But I still fold A6s-A8s and 22-44 UTG, as well as 65s, 97s and T8s. MP I go even wider than you, but again, that must depend on table composition, how aggressive are villain's behind you, how they defend their blinds and so on. But I do think you should try to widen your ranges as much as possible in order to maximally exploit the pool. Check your database to see how well/bad players are defeding their blinds/buttons and adjust accordingly
Obviusly I try to adapt my game to the tables, but as anyone I have some basic ranges, and Im building this "new wider" ranges for my game
One of our members started a post like this last month
Thought you might be interested in checking it out
Link
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