ch back dry flop 3b pot?

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ch back dry flop 3b pot?

http://weaktight.com/7087810

Do you want some ch back range on this flop? I think
it makes no sense to cb AK 1 or 2 streets as a ''bluf''. Are you like check back flop with 99/9Ts//6x/AK/some air

21 Comments

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sweet16 10 years, 5 months ago

I think this spot is very player dependent. And ye we want to have some x-backs, i would check back TT, most 6x I think, T9s,T8s,Tx in general 99-88 etc. In this spot I think I would bet this hand, may potentially x if we got suited. But I think I prefer betting our best Ax and check the worse ones like A3s,A5s or whatever we may have. This is a very cbetable (if that's a word?) board for our range in this spot he's going to be forced to continue with some a-highs/KQs/overs with bd etc so I would like to get money in there when we got him dominated. Could be tricky to realise eq if we start x/c AK imo. Don't expect to get raised off our hand otf very often since we're ahead a bunch on this flop. I would cbet A2s if we got it pre as well for protection/value vs a-high.

And ye the checks i listed above.. You may not have all pre, and some of them are def reasonable cbets imo. But just listed some examples. This is probably a board we could cb very wide for a smaller sizing.

JulianR 10 years, 5 months ago

u need some hands to bet 2 streets that aren't value bets, AK is pretty good for that here

add up your 2 street value bets, then add up your 2 street not value bets. If you can get enough 'not value bets' without any AK I'd be suprised

UpUpAndAway 10 years, 5 months ago

I think I would lean towards focusing on barreling 98s,87s,QJ,and KQ combos, in that order, if we have those in our range before choosing to barrel AK on this board.

sweet16 10 years, 5 months ago

we may not have all of those hands, many of them seem like good flatcalls and some like a fold like QJo for example. And I would call QJs.

We want to have like 70 % bluffs and 30% value. And we could probably cbet rly wide, we don't have to barell all of our combos. I could def bet AK and x/c on some turns and x/f on some, and barell on some ofc. I don't rly see why we shouldn't want to bet AK since we do good vs his calling range and for protection/value. We need some aces in our barelling range, rather check weak back weaker ones imo.

JulianR 10 years, 5 months ago

@ SPrince
name them?

UpUpAndAway
As sweet mentioned, they look like unlikely 3b hands to me. Even if had them, I don't think QJ or KQ make the best double barrel hands if they don't improve (most of the time).

SPrince 10 years, 5 months ago

3 combos of AKs, 3 combos AQs, 3 combos of 98s, 3 combos of 87s, 3 combos 54s, 9 combos of A3s-A5s etc.

Depends on our 3b strat, but all better candidates.

sweet16 10 years, 5 months ago

Lol.. iirc board was 2 6 Tr (weaktight aint working for me atm). Don't rly get why you would think A3s-A5s would be better barrells. AK got 6 outs to the essential nuts, our blockers are awesome as well. If we want to construct strong barrelling range I would say AK is a good 3 barell on a bunch of runouts. Can't recall what positions we were, but if villain got KTs / ATs preflop in that case, we block them which is going to be hands that can call down on bricks. And we can def barrell a A/Q/J/K since A/K gives us the nuts, and the J/Q are good for our range, we pick up a gutter (also block AQ/KQ/AJ/KJ). If villain slowplays like AA/KK , yeah we block those two, and I have a hard time AA will fold on many runouts on this board if he does slowplay it on occasion.

All the hands you mentioned as "better candidates" just block a bunch of crappy hands which we actually want villain to have. By blocking stronger hands we get more folds when bluffing the river, having 87s is like the same as having the Ah on a two hearts flop and river brick. It's bad bluff, you block air which you want villain to have (his range gets weaker).

I ran some quick range for villain in equilab when AKo got like 51% or w/e vs villains range and we're ip, probably don't get raised very often. And we can still check down and win on some runouts or x/c. If you look up the equity you will see that A3s-A5s do way worse first of all, second of all we're going to hit a bunch of marginal hands which can't bet bet shove if we hit an ace etc. We have to hit like a ace and a five, two fives with A5s, runner runner flush / or straight to get good valuebets with that hand. And that isn't going to happend very often.

SPrince 10 years, 5 months ago

We want to have like 70 % bluffs and 30% value.

I thought 40/60 value/bluff was optimal.

sweet16 10 years, 5 months ago

When making simulations I do 70/30 flop, 50/50 turn and 30/70 river (bluffs/value). It's however quite hard to determine what are bluffs/value sometimes (When betting for protection/value, like in this particular case) and somewhere along those lines are probably fine. I don't know this stuff very good rly, so you might be right. However it's as stevejpa said in his first video lots of assumptions so not rly that important to be have exact percentages I think.

Where did you get 40/60 from?

SPrince 10 years, 5 months ago

@Sweet, sorry was typing from the phone so the comments got split.
Definitely makes sense what you wrote about AKo (not sure if all combos should be in there), but don`t like checking back A3-A5s, 98s, 87s, if we decided to 3b.
What range did you give villain that AK has 51 vs and what do you think CO flatting range most often looks like here in general ?

sweet16 10 years, 5 months ago

I did this while I was lying in bed about to sleep so not sure what range I used. But if we just grab a bunch of hands like 66+ or smth like that and a bunch of broadways (except the weakest ones) and like 98s + we should still be around around 50-55% area or similair. The range I gave was probably too wide, and we pretty much do better vs a slightly tighter range since we got a bunch of his hand dominated.

thegrinder12 10 years, 5 months ago

I think it's not that important how much equite we have against his pf call range. we should look how much equite we have vs his xc range.

SPrince 10 years, 5 months ago

When making simulations I do 70/30 flop, 50/50 turn and 30/70 river
(bluffs/value).

But this is for nuts vs air situations when villain only has bluffcatchers (if im not mistaken), and more applicable for srps/bigger flop+turn sizing.
Ranges are much wider here.

*disclaimer - i don`t know poker math, so this is all intuitive.

sweet16 10 years, 5 months ago

Not sure if that's true, but his range actually mostly is bluffcatchers on this board except for like TT and eventually 66 if he calls it preflop

thegrinder12 10 years, 4 months ago

yea think this is a flop were we can bet all our non pair+ hands, because we almost have ever overcards or backdoordraws. Like to bet 50% of our AK-AQ, otherwise we only ch back 6x-TT. Think hands like A2-A5s are just cbets, bc we have backdoordraws and we let him fold A high hands.

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