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Can I ever call here?

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Posted by posted in Low Stakes

Can I ever call here?

Hi, new member here and my first hh post.

Both of us are deep at NL5. Can I ever call this river bet? No reads on villain, hes only been at the table for 2 orbits at this point.

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $5 (100 bb)
BB: $10.03 (200.6 bb)
UTG: $3.38 (67.6 bb)
MP: $5.21 (104.2 bb)
CO: $7.79 (155.8 bb)
Hero (BTN): $11.97 (239.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Ts Ks
2 folds, CO calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.22, 2 folds, CO calls $0.17

Flop: ($0.51) 2s 5s 3d (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.11) Ac (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($1.11) 4s (2 players)
CO bets $7.27, Hero ??

9 Comments

Loading 9 Comments...

Getready2rokk 11 years, 3 months ago

wow this is pretty sick overbet, i think i call my 3th nuts here but im not sure.
Just think its likely hes pretty random and can overplay weaker flushes cause the board is a straight, he may also overplay 6x or 67.

QQ Ownage 11 years, 3 months ago

you can easily call it off here.he could do this with lots of str. and maybe a high flush.It's  likely with a very small chance he could even be bluffing with a Air considering how low the stakes are and how the opponent could be.

It's pretty much a no brainer call here.

P.S And if he did have AsXs,he would had bet the turn with a certain possiibility.



Sean Fri 11 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, I used to hate this spot. The answer: it depends. Some guys do this with only the nuts or second nuts, some guys do this with any hand better than the made hand on the board (6's, lower flushes) and every once in a while a guy does this thinking he's bluffing you off a chop if he thinks you're the type to only call a huge over bet with the mortal nuts. So you need some reads. 

In the absence of reads, you play it against the general tendencies of the player pool. Trouble is, the player pool in the super-micros is SO diverse. Almost everyone is bad, but they're bad in so many ways. It would help tremendously just to have his vpip/pfr over even 50 hands. 

In this case, yeah, I think you should have barreled the A on the turn, because you can lay down to a big x/r. As played, I doubt he has any A, which means there's only one combo in the deck that beats you, so there are plenty of combos he could have to make it the right call mathematically. (You have to be right 46% of the time, and that's easy to get to if you're wrong against only one combo)

One other meta-consideration: If you call and you're wrong, you're no longer deep and in position with someone doing at least ONE thing stupid in this hand. If you just fold here, you're still about 165bb deep with him (and covering) and you have direct position for as long as you two stay at the table. Now, SOME guys only pull out this play if they're getting up the very next hand, but in most cases, even though I think it's an ok call, I think it MIGHT be long-term even higher EV to fold, keep playing deep and figure out what he's doing.

ItsToothPasteISwear 11 years, 3 months ago

I dont like barreling the turn here. getting c/r would be a travesty, hes got every Ax he calls PF in his range, and if hes got mid PPs we can prolly just get him to fold those on the river when he checks to us, which is the main reason for barrelling the turn.

As played, its really tough, I can easily see him having worse flushes and there are a ton of those, he could also just be thinking hes getting you off a chop. I would just click call. Hell if he showed me a 6 I wouldnt be blown outta my mind. 

Sean Fri 11 years, 3 months ago

Well, I think 'travesty' is overstating it somewhat, since we probably only see a x/r from a hand that has us drawing to, at most, 9 slightly dirty outs. I see what you're saying, though, that checking is the best way to realize our equity against those hands. 

But if we don't want to be raised off our FD equity (which is probably the only equity we have, now) then why is the river call 'tough?' If you're checking back turn to draw to a flush, doesn't hitting it make this an insta-call? (Which, btw, in a vacuum, I think it is.) What changed? Just the sizing and the existence of the SF? 

Just playing devil's advocate...

ItsToothPasteISwear 11 years, 3 months ago

haha, yeah I guess 'travesty' is a bit overstated, but it does suck! As far as what changed I mean if he just makes a normal bet I think we are talking about how we should be raising this, so the big change is his 7x pot bet for sure :)

Hova 11 years, 3 months ago

Sick. No way I could fold readless at 5nl though, far too many random guys just clicking buttons. Plus Axss should x/r that flop a tonne, I know he passive but even still. 


2pairTens 11 years, 3 months ago

Thanks for the feedback guys, I've had 2 spots like this over the last month and I've folded both times. Maybe a little too nitty at nl5 but the reason I posted was this kind of action just so rarely happens at donk stakes.

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