BvB 4B pot, river play
Posted by Colin252
Posted by
Colin252
posted in
Low Stakes
BvB 4B pot, river play
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25 (5 Players)
BB: $29.66
UTG: $25.58
CO: $26.85
BN: $25.00
SB: $25.00 (Hero)
UTG: $25.58
CO: $26.85
BN: $25.00
SB: $25.00 (Hero)
Preflop
($0.35)
Hero is SB with
A
K
, , , ,
Flop
($9.90)
4
K
4
,
Turn
($16.52)
4
K
4
2
,
River
($26.02)
4
K
4
2
Q
,
Final Pot
BB
wins and shows two pair, Kings and Queens.
SB lost and shows two pair, Kings and Fours.
BB wins $48.00
Rake is $2.00
SB lost and shows two pair, Kings and Fours.
BB wins $48.00
Rake is $2.00
Villain is 17/16/15 kinda passive post flop over 200 hands.
In game i felt like I didn't want to bet river, but the idea I could 4B, flop TPTK and not be able to bet 3 streets on a "dry" run out didn't compute. I'm not sure what I get value from OTR but to be honest, I really didn't know what else to do as stupid as that sounds.
Against a more aggro villain I may go into x/c mode from the turn, but v this passive guy I bet turn, then with the Q bumping the most obvious hand I get value from I got mentally stuck.
What would you do?
Loading 23 Comments...
Make 4b bigger with ak oop.
as played; its a bad river for ur actual hand and for stop his hero calls pp between 55 and 1010. shove is still the best play.
Seems unlikely this guy would have much 55-TT. Unless the plan is 3b/5b which almost nobody does in NL 25 - then 88-22 is a just a flat pre for most guys.
What do you think his river call range looks like in order to still recomend bet?
but he 3b with qk, so i guess 55-TT could also be in his 3b range. KJ and K10s some% , AK some %, and imo 55 - 1010 more likely 88 or 99. and obvious QK.
But ur mistake started with ur 4b.
4bet to 22/23bb --> 1/3 flop, push turn.
Q: by making it a 2 street game with bigger preflop size, you think I weaken his stack off range? ie under pairs are more likely to stack than if they have to call 3 streets?
I choose to simplify at this level.
I think villain will call OTT with KJs KQs, maybe even 99/TT
Yep makes sense to me. Looks aggressive enough to look like I might want folds, the 3 barrel doesn't look like that, which is part of why I was in an odd river spot to start with. Nick, tell me straight, 3.5x 4B is just crazy talk though right?
It seems waaaaaay too big, 22/23bb should work OOP vs 9bb
i did some math, 3,5 could be to big but.
Colin u make it 2.2 its just bad u forced him to call his hole 3b range IP. Pay the rake , and dont realise ur equity and have a poor playbilty.
Nick can u back it up the 22bb raise with some math from a 3bet range of 15% ?
Cause it seems we have to fold against a 5b shove range.whats gonna happen around 1/5 times.
I did some math with a big 4b. Its nice to clear out his worst 10% and take the 12bb right there. but if we are able to do that with a with a smaller bet it would be better.
A lot of preflop "math" is purely speculative. What I can tell you is many good players do choose a similar sizing as 4b in sb vs bb
I don't think we can fold AKo if we choose to 4bet because it would be on our 4bet value range, if we have a bluffing 4bet range like A2s A3s then we can fold those hands and call with JJ+ AKo AKs for example.
I agree with you saying that x2.2 is too small, but x3.5 seems way too big and you will only be facing the very best of his range. Making it around 22/23bb will keep villain medium strong hands like KJs KQs AJs AQs that can call a 4bet
Sorry for my rudimentary english :P
Haha same here but getting better at englisch doing this ;) ,
I know brokenstars , but there on different
levels and different rake place
Nick i know its our value range but if we 4b to 22 bb and lets say hes 5b tight JJ and AKo + we just have around 36% equity , but we get to pay 78 for 122 so we need like 39 % equity.
If we fold we lose 22bb
If we call against his (tight 5b range ) if my calculation are right we lose 6bb. So we rather call then fold right.
Mayby i made a calculation mistake can someone check it?
If we 4bet/fold we will lose 22/23bb, if we call vs that tight range around 6bb, but we will win money everytime he folds and we will have a range advantage if he calls.
All in all, I think 4bet/call is EV+ than 4bet/fold even vs a tight 5bet push range
Bigger pre, 2.5x is about right OOP. I'm always 1/3p flop, shoving turn here.
hes almost making it 2.5.
around 3.5x is the play to make...
He's made it 2.2, which is more what I do IP. 3.5x seems too much in my opinion maybe I'm wrong.
3.5 is HUGE and way out of the ordinary. I'd never do this as a bluff, and hard to think I'd ever want to use this size for AA/KK.
This is fine
What about checking turn?
Pretty clear triple imo and wp. I don't think we are incentivized to be checking this anywhere.
Esp v passive villain
What about none of the above??
Pre flop std.
Flop x/c - you block both over pairs and K, give him a chance to bluff this street...
Turn x/shove - your hand is under rep and will get called by any K perhaps even worst like TT+
I don't hate this plan I haven't thought much about what his turn betting range would look like via this line but I feel as a passive guy with almost nil that beats us more money goes in on average if we do the betting.
That said this is probably THE line to use v aggro spew types as they'll play a wide/weak turn betting range, then we only have to decide x/r or x/c ott.
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