Building Bankrolls with Short Buyins
Posted by SS810
Posted by
SS810
posted in
Low Stakes
Building Bankrolls with Short Buyins
Hi everyone.
I am new to RIO. I have been playing poker for over 10 years and I was actually doing it full time from 04 to 06 back when online poker was so much better. Now I am concentrating entirely on live games as the live 1/2 NLHE where I live is incredibly soft. I am working very hard to improve my game which is why I joined this site (unfortunately so far I am not finding most of the pro videos very helpful as they mostly target online play) I jumped back into the games this week after a fair amount of time off studying. I confidently bought in for the maximum ($500) however, I have had 2 incredibly bad sessions where even though I think I played quite well, The cards didn't go my way (almost every pot i won I stole and the rare times I hit a had like 2 pair or better I was beat). These 2 nightmare sessions cost me about $1800 and have put a serious dent in my roll. So now I am faced with the question of should I buy in short or suck it up and buyin for the max once I'm cooled off and ready. (I do have a $7000 visa to back me up if necessary but i really dont want to do that) I have built rolls from buying in for $100 in these games in the past. But i think that idea is kind of ludicrous unless you cash out when you hit a certain amount. So how would you approach the situation? I absolutely hate buying in for less then the maximum as these games are very soft and i like to play a lot of pots with these incredibly bad players. Should i cash out when i hit a certain amount to protect my roll? Any and all comments are appreciated.
P.S any recommended threads and/or videos for live poker (other then the crushing live no limit by garrett adelstein) would be appreciated as well.
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Losing 900bb in a couple live sessions (8hrs or so max? so like 250--300 hands?) either you got absolutely stomped by the deck or your edge on the game isnt as good as you think. Its more likely the later unfortunately so ya buying in 250bb deep seems like an error for now. I would approach this situation with humility and caution.
Obv gambling on credit is a awful idea and very irresponsible so please don t buy in with your visa.
If most players at the table play deep, then 900bb is not even 4BI, so losing that over 2 sessions is not that uncommon, especially if fish err on aggro side.
If we were talking about keeping you business alive by going into credit, nobody would oppose, yet here we suddenly call grinding poker gambling?
I agree that is not a good idea, but not because it's suddenly "gambling", but because by the time you need to dip into debt, you are already on a downswing and your survival is threatened. This means your mindset is probably crushed and you might have actually become a losing player through all the doubt and distortions that your mind produces. At best you might be slight winner. Adding credit card interest on top of that is a recipe for disaster for 99% of players.
Im fully aware that rude swongs can happen. 900bb is still 900bb though and this is over a pretty small amount of hands. I for one would definitely be questioning my edge and play in the game. Maybe I m 100% wrong and OP is a killer in the game with a terrible run of hands. Still though his post sounds like he s pretty shaken by this run, his confidence is down and his bankroll is in trouble. Doesnt sound like a great time to be buying in deep.
If I owned a business and I had to start dipping into debt I would certainly approach it with a lot of caution. Without a solid plan and some kind of strong confidence that theres the edge in the market that we think there is then I would frown upon going deep in debt as well. Idk what the laws are exactly but isnt going into business debt a bit less brutal then going into personal credit card debt?
And ya poker is 100% gambling. It can be gambling with an edge for sure obv but anyone who says its not gambling cause they can win long term is fooling themselves. We are all subject to stuff like gambling addiction when playing this game. I have personally looked at this devil str8 in the face at least once in my career.
Playing poker is certainly classed as gambling whether we like it or not . Although we are using our skill edge to make profitable decisions at the table we are also at the mercy of luck/varience, especially in the short term and even more especially playing live poker as our volume is so low.
Playing with poor bankroll management can send even the best players broke.
It is never a good idea to borrow money to play. It's hard to play A game when you are losing money you don't have.
Better off buy in shorter or drop stakes until you build a roll big enough to withstand varience
Yes it is. And that's exactly what I was trying to address. You stated that going into debt to play poker is certainly a terrible idea. I just added: "well, it depends...".
I don't like the word gambling because it has negative conotations. And I rarely hear people calling trading stocks or generally investing "gambling", even though they fit squarely into the definition of "wagering money on uncertain outcome". I'm not saying poker is not gambling, I just did not like how you phrased it.
The games are very loose aggressive where I live with lots of multi way pots. I should also of stated that the game has a mandatory $5 bring in as well.
You're not playing 1/2 then, you're playing 1/2/5. It makes a huge difference.
"your mindset is probably crushed and you might have actually become a losing player through all the doubt and distortions that your mind produces. At best you might be slight winner. Adding credit card interest on top of that is a recipe for disaster for 99% of players"
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I dont feel confident at all and this has affected my mood greatly over the last couple of days. Im really not sure what to do. The videos on this site are not helping me (other then convincing me to NEVER play online as i obviously never have an edge on any player that exploits software and these videos) im reading ed miller books but i just dont know where im at and when to get back into it. Bottom line im feeling pretty shitty right now. I admit i did make some mistakes in the sessions (dont all players?) But i never made any critical mistakes that i got my entire stack in drawing dead like i witnessed a couple of players do.
Poker is a tough game man and theory has advanced a lot over the last years so this means the learning curve is pretty steep if you havent played much lately. I used to beat up on 400-1knl HU around 2008-2010 or so and I m sitting here grinding away at 20-50nl cutting my teeth. Don t wanna get you down but honesty with yourself is important and it sounds like your getting somewhere with that at least.
Idk what your goals and aspirations are and how this live game plays (live play generally makes me pretty nervous). Maybe practice on micro stakes online where the action should be pretty soft to prepare for the higher stakes live? Just an idea but could provide the arena you need in order to get a super solid game going.
You haven't stated the actual size of your bankroll, but from the context I can assume it doesn't exceed $3-4k. So you most likely have only couple buy-ins for the stake you play which is not good bankroll management. You can see that clearly when losing just 4BI has already had such an impact on your mindset. It looks like you are gambling with your life, hoping for good variance to keep you afloat.
You need to start protecting your BR. If playing actual 1/2 without mandatory straddle is not an option, then shortstacking seems like the best idea. If games are really good it should be relatively easy to pick up all the dead money and often get it in with huge equity advantage. Then, when you double up you can keep playing with a healthy stack. But you should still consider quitting when reaching around 200bb ($1k) effective, since you can't afford to loose that and you can't afford to play scared money.
" I absolutely hate buying in for less then the maximum as these games are very soft and i like to play a lot of pots with these incredibly bad players. "
To me it sounds like you are a little over your head and might be to stubborn to admit it. Sorry not meant personally. You say you dont find most vids on rio educational bc its suited for online poker.. i'd say it doesn't matter. It's is (nearly) the same game just with a different playerpool. You still need your fundamentals like solid preflop ranges and relative handstrengths etc. You'll just need to adapt the thought process and than match it on your environment.
Buying in for the max can be maxEV for you when you're able to apply pressure in certaint spots and if are in general good in deep stack play. ZachFreeman and GMan have good content for live situations. You might check their vids first.
Still you need to work on fundamentals.. they also give you more confidence in your decision making.
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