Bet Fold Flush On The River?
Posted by Tjohnston
Posted by
Tjohnston
posted in
Mid Stakes
Bet Fold Flush On The River?
2/4 NL No Cap
Hero $1350 - Hero is a prop and has a good TAG winning image at the table.
Villain $1400 (bought into game for that amount) - Villain is new to the table maybe 5 hands into session. I have played with him once before and from my recollection he is a solid player that doesn't get out of line past the flop. I also had another prop tell me that he is a good player and has been playing for a long time. he is probably in his 40's.
Table is 6 handed
Hero is BTN /w J9
Villain is CO
Villain raises to $16
Hero calls
SB and BB fold
Flop 2J
3
Pot ($33)
Villain Bets $20
Hero Raises to $60
Villain Calls
Turn 2J
3
8
Pot ($153)
Villain Checks
Hero Bets $110
Villain Calls $110
River 2J
3
8
K
Pot ($373)
Villain Checks
Hero Bets $240
Villain Jams $974 and is all in
Hero?
Loading 14 Comments...
Flat the flop. Never folding river.
I don't hate the raise on the flop. You're going to be in very good shape against his range in the CO, so if you think he's going to call a raise, I would definitely go for it. It all depends on how much variance you are willing to take against a reg.
I don't see why you would fold the river. The only thing you're scared about is a Q/K/A high flush, and I think a reg would usually raise on the turn with such hands, simply because he is out of position and it would be very weird if he randomly donk bet/shoved the river. For those reasons, I think this is a relatively easy call. He shows up with KJ, a set, AhKx a lot of the time.
nH.
I never fold river in this spot, higher flushes aren't getting checked there. I can't see a set or even KJ going CR rather than CC or BC. I think villain shows up here a lot with Ah or Kh blocker or air and maybe AxAh
what a strange line by villan i dont think i could ever fold this hand but i dont know what worse hands he could do this with this deep on river. All of his Ahxh are in his Preflop range. Is he smart enough to realize what your repping? If you think he doesnt get out of line post flop I guess you could make a super sick fold and save yourself alot of $
I ended up folding the hand. My thinking was I don't think villain here is getting out of line here with anything but a hand that beats me. He is 5 hands into the session and I'm the only stack at the table that is close to covering him. I really don't see anyone in these stakes bluff shoving 350bb 5 hands into a session with a hand that doesn't have me beat. When i folded he said "Did you have a set?" I said yea and he said good fold I had the flush. I have no idea if his flush was better but I like to assume I made a good fold here haha.
I´m pretty flabbergasted why everybody is so keen on snapping the river!! 8-O
This is a live game and Villain is a competent player (who buys in with 3.5 buy-ins). Tell me one hand in Hero´s range that is not a flush on the river?! And what range does Villain x/c down with and turn it into a bluff on the river? It might be AhJx, which makes a whopping 2 combos, maybe add AhAx, which adds another 3 combos - and what else?
The river is actually a pretty easy fold in my opinion.
"I never fold river in this spot, higher flushes aren't getting checked there."
Why that? Every competent reg should check the river with the given action ...
"I´m pretty flabbergasted why everybody is so keen on snapping the river!! 8-O"
The reason everybody wants to snap muck is because it would take a very strong player in a live game to feel the need to turn some of his AhXx that gets to this river into a bluff to ensure a balanced range. Most strong players don't ever expect anybody to b/f a flush on the river so the less often he thinks you'll fold the more often he just has the nuts.
I don't think that the line by villain is all that strange. Actually seems pretty standard for live cash game players. Since your image is of a good player, there aren't two pair combos for you in this spot. You're probably flatting flop with all of your JX hands, even AJ, no point in giving up positional advantage on this board by raising when he likely would not continue further with worse himself. So, when you raise flop, your range is heavily weighted towards sets and flush draws, rarely pure air. This player knows this. He can def flat QThh KQhh AXhh here. He likely will flat that, one, to keep you in pot with worse flush draws, two, to not build a monster pot on flop vs you out of position since you are so deep and your range is sets or flush draws. When turn hits flush he checks knowing you're paying off either way but he can keep pot controlled in case board pairs river. Live players tend to try and keep pots smaller out of position. When river is a relative brick given the action, he will check to let you v-bet sets and flushes as you should, now he has an easy check shove hoping you'll call and he can showdown the nuts.
Good fold by you.
Live players are just incapable of c/r bluffing the river, especially in this scenario where you've shown immense strength on every street with sizable bets. It's not like you threw a weakfish 1/4 pot bet on river and he decided to bluff you with AhX. He would also just call you with even a K high flush, unless he saw your cards accidentally, haha.
What city / cardroom did this hand occur? Closer it is to vegas the less I'm folding. If it's at some Indian casino or somewhere not known for having a significant amount of good to strong players I'd fold so fast. Unless I knew something about villain and thought he was particularly good.
Also flop raise is ... well it's not bad but it's definitely not standard and very rarely is it a strong play. Standard play is to call there.
This happened in a small card room in Central California and the guy who did this is a solid Reg at another card room in the area and has now became a reg at the card room I prop at.
Also I asked him the other day about this hand and if he remembered and he said he had QhTh.
"Also I asked him the other day about this hand and if he remembered and he said he had QhTh."
I doubt he'd shove a Q high flush, I think he is more likely just calling.
Either way river folding river, IMO.
That's just what he claims so who knows what he actually had.
Folding river is best""
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