Probably 2-street bet sizing here. If you have a flop check range AA should probably be in it sometimes and perhaps also sometimes in bet-check line.

I simulated the hand and tried to give some rough estimation of ranges. The 4bet bluffing range ended up having a lot of 9x and 8x so defending checking range became very important.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nc32lb3zqrwqdmx/AABLPOqCOPn84c0w4hqziJ3Na?dl=0
PS You need Pio license basic or higher to open file in link.

If I change the bluffing range from suited connected high cards to mostly KQo it completely changes strategy from almost always checking to almost always betting without changing any other parameters.

How PIO solver can guess what hands the guy is calling 4bet with ? Can we look at his hypothetic range for the call4bet for PIOsolver ? I'm very curious how he determines that.
That's the main problem of this hands for an human i mean, hard to make a good strategy without vilain's range.

But my naive and pathetic strategy would be (small size and shove almost turn OR shove flop) with AKs and some AA/KK and create a checkflop betshoving range on the turn with bdfd and some KK, and create a check turn, shoving river range totally polarized with the good hands remaning, and the trash bullshithands.

shoveflop30% checkflopshoveturn5% checkflopcheckturnshoveriver45% greatstrategyloool

I bet super tiny on the flop very often. Like $34 or something

betting flop 1/4 ps.
4-bet sizing i like very much.
i dont get why you guys all imitate the nosebleed guys with their "creating range here" and creating range there " and "creating range over there" etc. note that these guys play each other daily. and are the best of the best. only for them that "creating ranges" talk make sense. not for us, who with almost certainty will never ever ever againg be in this particular spot vs this particular villain.

OMGDardania, obv i don't do this at my games, but it's a pretty poor thinking to not think to those thing, it's the best way to not improve.

lol@tinkering with a GTO solver (to conclude that we should have lots of 8x 9x bluffs ...) in a spot where we get 3bet par nit#1 and overcalled by nit#2 whilst opening from MP.

We should very exactly have 0 bluffs, and jam AA preflop before one of these two idiots find a flop they can fold their QQ or AK on.

People overthink so much they don't know how to think anymore. Stop watching videos that are useless to you and use your brain.

I still don't understand that post, and yes.

Neither of these two players will ever believe you're bluffing (and you should never be), both of them have very strong ranges, you want them to put all the money in when your equity advantage is at its maximum and fold equity at its minimum.

That is preflop. Just shove AA, KK, and decide what's better with QQ and AK between call and shove.

Don't bother with game theory, being exploitable or whatever. Whatever your opponents strategies are, they are probably stupid anyway given their stats. Samples might be skewed and them not actually be 18/14/4, but their strategies are still pretty likely to be vastly exploitable on a 200NL Ipoker.

You don't understand

price is wrong *

What I did not understand was why you would think using a GTO solver that comes up with bluffing frequencies in a spot where you obviously should never bluff (due to player pool average range, and extra weighing from stats) would give you an edge. I was thus assuming that there was something else to that and and excess of pride to your post, but most likely not.

In general, using unnecessarily sophisticated tools will only lead you astray, unless you are already a very strong player. With no offense, you don't seem to be, and you - and most people tbh - would be way better off sticking to basic concepts before tinkering with advanced ones.

Ask yourself the correct questions instead of drowning yourself in onanistic complexity.

In that case "how do I get the most money against two strong ranges" instead of "what is the balanced play".

In your other topic where you hold Q9s "does my opponent fold anything that he valuebets ?" and "would he give me credit for a straight ?" instead of "is my hand a good bluff within my range ?"

Using a solver, constructing a balanced range, same thing. You're uselessly overthinking regardless.

@Art
I ask Pio about you and your advice, and the output looked like this:
GTO?

lol very funny, btw artplay is a good online player (famous in french community), but i'm surprised of the condescension of his post.

@ Dddog, read through your thread. As you know I don’t get when you guys are trolling or not and if, for what reason.
Hence I won’t comment on that. :)
On the hand I´d actually shove Pre instead of 4betting 3x as we aren’t that deep and I wouldn’t want to give the guys, especially BTN who already shown he likes to call a raise a look at the flop and being able to fold JJ+,AK on the Flop. With the expected Flop SPR to be less than 1 I don’t have any/much post flop playability anyway

omg I´m such a noob, first I delete my comment when wanting to reply and then I flag DDogs comment when wanting to reply to his comment :)))
Find it interesting that you guys don´t have a 4bet shoving range 100bb eff with 23bb out there in dead money, guess there is some merit in not letting our opponents play "perfectly" pre vs us but having a hard time to imagine that there aren´t loads of guys out there who call off with JJ+ and AK.