Been playing 1/2 - 2/5 Live For Years, need real help-Transitioning. (Want to learn more, make more, study more)
Posted by Dispo96
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Dispo96
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Been playing 1/2 - 2/5 Live For Years, need real help-Transitioning. (Want to learn more, make more, study more)
Good day, this will be a lengthy one so any responses will be appreciated.
So I've been playing 1/2 - 2/5 for years, much more 1/2 & 1/3 than 2/5. (What my local casino has) I am now transitioning to Online, I was told to start at 2NL-6Max, play 100K hands, get a coach and I'm about 16K hands in and I don't know if it's just me but I'm currently sitting at -16.39bb/100~ .
First off I want to say I know that this is a small online sample size.
But what I've noticed is people rarely bluff, a portion of my loses are calls I would make at a live game and be right (bluff catching), I'm wondering is this just because it's 2NL or is it because the games are a lot tougher online?
Regardless, my real question for all of this is what would be the top places to study / learn from? I'm going through the essentials stuff (newer stuff, I feel like the old stuff is out dated), I'm also trying to get a better understanding of GTO, I want to be making a serious consistent part time income off online poker like I do live, what would you guys recommend to progress the fastest way?
Also, are programs like Simple Trainer GTO / Poker Snowie worth using or no? I noticed Poker Snowie doesn't even have 2NL.
Direction would be great, I'd even appreciate if someone would go through my 16k hands with me and try to show me how I can analyze it and what i'm doing wrong at this point.
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Hello Dipso, I love the name, assuming I'm reading it correctly I can relate as I'm kind of one myself :P
Regarding your questions, I found myself in kind of the same boat, I used to have no problem playing live at about the stakes you would play at, for a long time, but of course a lot of this was back when live games were much softer. Predictably I'm getting the stuffing beaten out of me when I play online even at the 4€ NL on Run It Once Poker. Here's the things I've incorporated into my game plan that I might recommend:
#1) I've found the "From The Ground Up" course is a fantastic value, especially when it gets into the meatier part about GTO and ways to incorporate that into your game.
#2) I've found already that I'm showing up at the showdown a LOT with second best hands, certainly more so than I ever did playing live. Since I'm also playing much more aggressively (as is correct, in a tough 6 max game versus the very soft live games at low limits) I think this may be related. One of the videos in the above series suggested players underbluff significantly at micros, and I'm starting to see some wisdom in that.
#3) When I play I clip out interesting hands to post and share for review, just a few, making sure to have a selection of some where I won and some where I lost so I don't fall prey to the words of old Norm down at the club: "of course he lost the hand; if he won the hand, he wouldn't have a story". :P. I think direct hand study is far more valuable than trying to cannonball into the GTO ocean.
#4) Related, if something comes up that I'm muddled about the concepts of, or something doesn't seem right on a principled level, I make a note and immediately refresh viewing a video or watch some new ones on that content. While it's still in my mind, yanno?
#5) Forgive yourself for making mistakes. While the actual dollar amount of the mistake doesn't rightly factor into strategic thinking, at some point you still need to remember that $1 in lost EV is like a candy bar. As long as you're trying and you're working, it'll come around. There's a reason we're starting out at micros, right?
That's all I got for now. Good luck out there, except against me. Well, you can have good luck if you're out of position ;)
Hey Alpha, I'm not sure if we mean the same thing about my name, you spelled it incorrectly. xD :P
I will check out that course, I found a lot of the courses were dated by a few years so I decided to start taking on the newer stuff but I will see if I can find what you are referring to. :)
I definitely play more aggressive online than I do on the sites, I have played on RIO a few times but the player pool is very small so it's kind of hit and miss, and it takes a lot of work to put money on the site for me here in Canada.
I think my current problem with GTO and where I'm sitting, is I don't know what hands I should be reviewing because you're right I'm probably winning hands I shouldn't be and losing hands I should be. xD It's like a double negative.
Thanks again for your response!
oh shit, I had a brain cramp. Yeah it's Dispo, I see that now (for the record, a dipsomaniac is someone who has a real strong attraction to alcohol :P).
From The Ground Up isn't even a year old, so that's not a concern.
And if you're wondering which ones to look up, when in doubt, I like to look at the biggest pots, and ones where I was faced with an all-in bet. Usually something went down in those that has food for thought.
everyone online are break even nits grinding rakeback with 0 bluff frequency
yh, right.. :) :D
Well that may be true, I doubt it. Especially right now.
1) Casino games are a joke compared to online. If you can beat like .05/.10 online then you will crush pretty much any $1/$3 - $2/$5 game live. So yeah it's not your imagination.
2) Get a GTO basis to your game. I feel like GTO to poker is like BJJ to MMA. You don't have to specialize in that play style exactly however if you are going up against people with some GTO understanding and you have none you will get crushed tin can.
3) Read Mathew Janda's book Aplications of No Limit Holdem or something like that. The first book he wrote not the sequel with the advanced content you can skip that one Snowie will be better than that.
4) If that book feels like too much try David Sklansky's new book The Theory of Poker Applied to NO-LIMIT. Hell read it either way it's Sklansky.
5) Watch theoretical videos here on RIO by Francisco Lacriola. He has a bunch of content here on the essential plan which I think is fantastic. At first it will make your head swim but after you start to understand the content in Janda's book you will find yourself understanding what Francisco is talking about and you will pull some real power out of that content.
6) You NEED some sort of training software to get your head around this stuff unless you are some sort of idiot savant or something. Don't think looking at 5 hands a day on a piece of paper is going to cut the mustard. IMO Poker Snowie is the way. I don't have subscriptions to the other software so I can't speak on them but Snowie is invaluable for practicing your understanding of these concepts and analyzing your game inside out at a pace that's reasonable. Plus it's much simpler to get your head around how to use than PIO and such. I also like how it tells you the EV of the plays it reccomends and other plays it doesn't so you can use this to get extra creative in spots you think you can exploit people in.
1) I do think it's a lot harder online than offline, don't get me wrong but like the situations I feel I'm running in to is just people either play only made hands and never bluff or they are just a complete fish. There's no big plays that I'm seeing, I'm the fish trying to make the plays but I'm probably just way out of line.
2) Where do I find the best training on GTO, personally I think that's what I need to but it's kind of hit and miss all over, lots of talk about playing GTO and then branching from there to fit your play style but nothing concrete on what GTO actually is.
3) Just ordered the book, thanks.
4) Also ordered that one.
5) I'll look for videos specific to Francisco Lacriola here and see if I can follow him, his accent was really hard for me in one of the videos but I think that video was from 2 years ago so it could have been a quality thing as well.
6) I downloaded Poker Snowie and have been running it a bit, problem is it doesn't go down to 2NL which is what i'm playing right now, it goes to 20NL (I think?) .1/.2, which I feel is a completely different game than what i'm playing at the moment.
1) Shrugs I almost only ever semi-bluff if I am playing live. I feel like the sloppy bet sizing and the fact that you have like 5 people in about every other hand with low SPRs prevents reasonable bluffing mostly. Because of the gap concept you need stronger and stronger hands just to open as more people limp which leaves a narrow and tight opening range to begin with. I've seen some people seem to sort of get away with a LAGish approach but to me it's like why not just take the low hanging fruit. People live have no clue and call way too much. Just push value everywhere you see it and look for those big exploits.
2) Janda's book should teach you this in the simplest and clearest terms I've seen it put in. The base concepts here where every other decision you make will spring from is 1-A which is otherwise known as the minimum defense frequency. This is simply the bet size divided by the pot including the new bet made. Example $100 pot guy bets $50 your action. you divide 50 by 150 which equals .33333. This is how often your opponent needs to win for this bet to break even assuming he will not win win called. 1- this number which is the variable A is .66666. This means you need to call or raise this bet 66% of the time or your opponent will be able to make this bet profitably with any two cards. If you defend at this frequency you should make the opponent INDIFFERENT to bluffing here
The other side of this which I believe is called 1-B but don't quote me on that because it gets rather complicated which is where you looking at the same bet as the role of the bettor. you have a $100 you think I want to bet $50 so you look at your opponent's pot odds and see how often they need to break even facing that bet. In this case you take $150 : $50 which is 3 : 1. You convert this to a fraction 1/4 which means they need to win 1/4th the time to break even which is .25 1- this number or B is .75. This means when you make this bet %75 percent of the time it needs to be for value and $25 percent of the time it need to be as a bluff. This will make the opponent INDIFFERENT to calling this bet to prevent you from bluffing.
5) & 6) Laciola is just hard to understand with his accent and if you don't have a GTO framework will be hard to figure out anyway. Start with the book. Learn about 1-A, 1-B, and indifference. Don't worry about actually achieving these things yet just understand them as concepts. As far as Snowie just choose any bet size that is similar to that you are playing. in your case use .1/.2 or even $1/$2. Snowie's solutions will not change with the bet sizes. Its all about the bet sizes in relation to the pot and relative stack sizes or SPR stack to pot ratio. Your bets in real life will look the same number wise just move the decimal points. A .06 bet will now just be a .6 bet.
Bluffing at 2nl is rare. You need to play fit or fold vs the fish, youll never take them off hands.
You should play tight, and iso huge with value hands, or just limp/fold in many cases with drawing hands. You should play your position for sure, and really do some range work to bring your VPIP low, I'd say sub-20 at this stake.
Your only real bluffs should be cbetting flops (they will fold easily if they have nothing) and maybe the occasional double barrel if you realize your opponent is smart enough to fold out marginal pairs.
If you have the cash, skip 2nl, move up to the next stake.
Also, you should use a HUD if your site allows it.
Nate Williams put together a very good article on the skill difference at these stakes:
Moving From NL2 to NL5: What to Expect
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