Basic live game strategy question

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Basic live game strategy question

We have a regular live game filled with generally the same 10-12 people. All of us know each other's games very well. The vast majority of the guys are loose action players. Generally at any given time at a 10 man table there will be 2 Nits (me and another guy) and 8 laggy action junkies.

It's a simple 1/2 game but open raises are usually 10x. Typical hand is guy under the gun open raises to $20 with 5 8 of hearts. And you get 3 callers with any type of hand and if somebody has AJ or better they make it $75 to see a flop. That's pretty much every hand. To me this is an insane game. But whatever.

My question is wouldn't a tight style be beneficial over the long haul in this game? Isn't that just simple old school philosophy? I just don't feel comfortable calling 3 other players with K 5 of hearts or QJ off even in late position. Should I be calling those hands or raising to $75 like everybody else? If I get no reasonably decent hands I tend to just get run over. Should I be more aggressive in early position with much weaker hands to get in the mix? Or stick with the tried and true TAG style? I apologize for the basic question but I'm frustrated. Thanks.

8 Comments

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James Hudson 12 years, 4 months ago
As Dan said, the buy-in is fairly important here. Even if you don't want to shortstack the game it seems like it almost becomes that anyways given the amount of dead money that gets put in the pot preflop. I'm not amazing with shortstack math but I would assume that if it's going UTG opens to 10bb, call, call, that you don't need to have much of a hand in the BB given 100bb stacks to just jam over the top and collect the 30bb pot. Chances are that they'll get annoyed with this rather quickly and either stop opening super wide to 10x or that they'll start calling off really wide. Another adjustment you could make would be to try some limping or using more reasonable open sizes and see if that catches on with the others.
Eric Bickel 12 years, 4 months ago
Good suggestions thank you. I have tried some limping. My reasonable open sizes are generally mocked lol....and scare no one. But I do like the idea of just jamming these guys every once in a while. Thanks.
Sean Lefort 12 years, 4 months ago
Yeah at 100bb you're going to want to do a LOT of jamming. If it doesn't ruin the flow of the game, I'd also go with the opposite extreme open-size-wise and MR or 2.5x open for obvious reasons, and with tight ranges. I'd expect a lot of.. you open AQo MP, call, BTN raise to 11x, cold call, you jam, fold, ATo calls because they're frustrated with you, --> profit.

Of course I have to assume the game gets really deep really quickly. When that's the case, their post-flop tendencies are going to dictate just how loose you want to play with them pre-flop. Obviously, the worse the are post-flop, the wider you can splash around pre-flop.
Mikey Stotz 12 years, 3 months ago
Based on your examples, it would seem like there are some set rules that are never broken in the game. If no one has ever folded to a reasonably sized 3 bet, then I would think that you can be extremely straight forward and if someone opens to $20, you can 3 bet to $90 (possibly even larger) with all of your premiums. There is no reason to create a balancing range if the opponents are virtually guaranteed to react the same way every time. When a game is playing with "rules" like no one folds to a 3 bet, opponents are getting it in on virtually every draw, you can almost treat it like a casino game in which you're going to see 5 cards but you have the ability to choose your starting two cards.

I've played in games like these before and played both roles - sometimes the guy playing any two and sometimes playing tight and actually trying to win. I think the key is to not get frustrated.

EB - I'll play in these game! Let me know next time it goes down. Maybe I can end up playing $10/$20 HU with Ram.
monkeytilt 12 years, 3 months ago
I think you have to loosen up and take the variance, if you are going to be a regular there. Make it 10x yourself and raise at least half as often as they do. Try and get the money in on any top pair you hit (say tens and above), flush draw or open ended straight draw with backdoor flush draw.

You will still be playing better than they are and you want to be loose enough to get invited back. Nitting up is just not getting into the spirit of it. If I was playing like them and one guy was short-stacking or waiting for premium spots, I wouldn't want them at the table.

It's a recreational game, you can't treat it as just a cash cow. That doesn't mean you can't be +ev in there either. Sounds like a lot of fun, if you are rolled for it. You can play like Viffer and not even be the craziest guy at the table!

You didn't say how they were playing post flop. Does the action freeze up a lot, or are people getting the money in with draws and non top pair hands?
darko Legin 12 years, 3 months ago
I will try to wait good hand, and when they put x10 and 3 calls, you just put all in. Maybe you get one call and double up. If not you will get 30 BB, also good.

I think the best way to beat that kind of game is to set a limit when to go off table. If your goal is to get 3XBuy in, when you get it, sit out, or play small preflop when nobody raise.

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