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Bad bet, call with KK

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Posted by posted in Low Stakes

Bad bet, call with KK

Blinds: $0.05/$0.10 (5 Players) BN: $12.00
SB: $13.27 (Hero)
BB: $17.28
UTG: $10.41
CO: $10.55
Preflop ($0.15) Hero is SB with K K
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20
Flop ($0.60) Q 9 3
Hero bets $0.40, BB calls $0.40
Turn ($1.40) Q 9 3 J
Hero bets $1.34, BB calls $1.34
River ($4.08) Q 9 3 J 5
Hero bets $3.90, BB raises to $15.24 and is all in, Hero calls $7.33 and is all in
Final Pot SB lost and shows a pair of Kings.
BB wins and shows a flush, Queen high.
BB wins $25.35
Rake is $1.19

Should I have check called or check folded the river?

14 Comments

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Kalupso 8 years, 1 month ago

I think you're putting too much money in with KK here overall and that you need at least J9 to bet that size on the river. It's difficult to put villain on enough bluffs to check call and he shouldn't bet worse for value, so it feels like a block bet or check-fold spot.

Turn is one of the best cards for BB and I prefer a slightly smaller turn cbet for that reason. If you bet something like 70% pot OTT it should be close between check and block bet on the river with your weaker 2pair and hands like KhKx. It looks to me like a spot you want to use two bet sizes with your range. One all in size with some KT and flushes and a size around 25% pot with 2pair. Your sets and T8 falls somewhere in between those bet sizes but is a relatively small part of your range. Alternatively check quite a lot and use one bet size.

Edit: SPR is a little high to play 25% pot bet or shove, but using 25% pot and 100% pot should work really well here and allows you to bet KhQ+ for value in a spot it's unlikely villain has many bluffs or will value bet worse hands.

Hans Dampf 8 years, 1 month ago

I would probably take a different line on the turn. As @Kalupso mentioned that turn hits villains range quite hard. He can now have a variety of hands that have you beat (JJ, QJ,J9) plus he might raise hands like QThh/QKhh/T8hh/KT and put you in a difficult spot. I think you are polarizing your hand a bit too much with the turn cbet and would probably check-call turn and then check-decide river.

However, think that the turn bet is fine as well since he can have a variety of one pair + draw hands that you can get value from. But then I think you should check/call or check/fold on the river (depending on bet size and run-out). But after his river raise I think it is a mandatory fold. He has so many two pairs, sets, straights and flushes in his range that you are basically bluff-catching.

JCJordypants 8 years, 1 month ago

I agree with pretty much all of what you've says here, every time I go to comment on a thread I find you've got there half an hour before me with pretty much what I was going to say ;)

I think while a turn bet is fine I think you can make an argument for checking. As it's been said it's one of the best cards for BB's range so we're probably going to be checking a fair amount of our range here. If we start only betting our strong hands like two pair and our combo draws then our checking range is going to be very weak. This probably won't be an issue at NL10 but as we get higher I'm sure it will be.

Hans Dampf 8 years, 1 month ago

Slow day at work, so have plenty of time to spend in the threads today. Sure that will change and you can claim "first" again soon :)

Also, nice argument above regarding balancing the checking range. Taking this into account I would lean towards a turn check even more.

Disharmonist 8 years ago

A RIO pro at NL10? What am I missing? Frankly terrible pot/call oTR. I even prefer checking turn as it completes many, many 2pair / straights.

Brokenstars 8 years ago

x/jam (bl00f)
river call is very losing play -- simply too many strong hands in his range

SneakyFeet333 8 years ago

Depends on villain really. If they're a thinking player with Kh in your hand I don't mind your bet but against the player pool at 10nl I think you're better off c/calling. A lot of guys will bluff at this river not knowing why except "Hey! I could have a flush here right!?!?"

Disharmonist 8 years ago

Wrong. Most hands have enough sdv to check back. At nl10, this is a simple x/fold against big bets. There are still enough turn slowplays such as T8 and QJ.

Mikwin 8 years ago

Horrible spot. Im torn on the turn on if i wanna bet or check, kinda wanna charge all his draws and stuff like KJ. Kinda looks troublesome for my check range though i would be protected on a lot of rivers still anyway. As played though villain would need to be turning pairs into a bluff for us to call unless he just floated some random Tx.

Not sure on like a 2c either as played, guess i would x decide on his bet sizing, id be a bit worried if villain started vbetting some Qx though seen as i would size down on turn had i bet.

Mikwin 8 years ago

Thought i would add im not really one to worry to much about how many bluffs i have to v bets but on this turn i cant see me blasting off a lot as a bluff so if that's true and villains also thinks that's true i would guess that shifts this hand to a check.

Serge Pouliot 8 years ago

I think cbetting flop is fine, as everyone mentioned, turn is pretty bad for your range and is a lot better for BB range, I would probably check turn and if checked behind I would bet/fold river instead of bet/calling or check/calling (you still some value vs 1 pair hands and he should probably be calling his 2 pair hands also and not raising them so bet/folding seems a lot better than check/calling given he will check back his 1 pairs and bet his 2 pairs). If BB bets turn, I would at least call one and probably check/fold river (depending on villain and tendencies).

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