AA vs donk flop and aggression on turn and river
Posted by yehudi
Posted by
yehudi
posted in
Low Stakes
AA vs donk flop and aggression on turn and river
Blinds: $0.01/$0.02 (6 Players)
BN: $2.74
SB: $2.00
BB: $2.79
UTG: $3.20
MP: $2.31
CO: $3.18 (Hero)
SB: $2.00
BB: $2.79
UTG: $3.20
MP: $2.31
CO: $3.18 (Hero)
BB is 22/15 (donk 13%) - 183h
Preflop
($0.03)
Hero is CO with
A
A
, , ,
Flop
($0.11)
J
K
J
,
Turn
($0.39)
J
K
J
9
,
River
($0.95)
J
K
J
9
T
,
Hi all.
Could I have played this one any differently?
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I would just raise the flop. Take the lead, he will call with some pairs below the K, he will call with any K, als with draws and also with a J.
And you think a tight-passive player tends to overbet-donk the flop with TT? Do you wanna raise and continue barreling on the turn? I do not think that's the best idea.
I'd say this most likely looks like Jx. I like how the hand was played.
I think he might have just pressed a button. I don't think a bad player really thinks about that stuff. And yes, there is at least some frequency, I believe (and saw), bad players do that. I would probably raise and re-evaluate on the turn. Because if he now donkbets pot or overbets again.. mweh.. He might also check, which I am not sure.. probably bet and see what he does. Check-raise is a fold then. If he just calls.. I might check back the river or something.
Still there' no merit in raising the flop. It's like p* against the wind. :-) Sure, there might be "some frequency", that's the reason why we are never folding. Neither flop, nor turn (most often). But raising accomplishes nothing.
If he calls with something weaker we get more money by raising and I am really not sure if this donkbet can only be the nuts. I think you put a lot on that .14c donkbet but on a lot of pokersites you have buttons where you can choose what to bet. Doesnt have to mean much.
need to see a showdown when he donks pot with medium hands before i am willing to exploit raise flop here
ganna be flatting even some Jx here and even if i had the nut full house/quads i still would be flatting so yea having a raising range here is suboptimal - overfold your weak stuff vs the overbet and continue with a very strong range which includes AA is better
I would recommend in this high rake game with Weak opponents to open to at least 3X. what is the bottom hands in your opening range from the cut off?
IMHO post flop is played well. Not sure about the comment of raising flop to get more value from KKs it might be really good at these stakes. interested in what others think.
Yeah the rake topic is also very interesting. In Italy the Pokerstars rake system is 5.5%. I've read in another thread that this fact should be a sufficient reason to choose a tighter approach preflop. What's your take on this? So should I also raise 3x from any position? I usually raise 3x from SB, EP, and HJ; and 2.5X from CO and BU.
there exists in optimal range for every single raise sizing so there is nothing inherently wrong with using different sizes
issues occur when you put hands into incorrect sizes - for example a standard 3x range utg with low pairs will be slightly -ev where as a min raise with a range that includes those low pairs would be better - but the tradeoff is that the hands you want to raise big with like AA lose a bit of value
optimal raise sizing is closer to 2.5x to maximize ev of your range only but it doesnt exploit the field/rake, so pick a sizing that exploits the field
if your in a high rake environment where people wont be able to fold the bottom of their 3x defending raise vs a 3.5x pot size raise, then do a 3.5x raise - but make sure your not making the mistake in paragraph two and simply taking your 3x raise and making it bigger pre, you have to cut some hands out
the trade off for taking it down more preflop and avoiding the postflop rake is that your stylistically playing tight - but that already aligns with how to win at micro anyway so do it
I pick the more serious regs at 10nl by looking at their bet size because it’s often some cool version of 2,5x. I, since a week or so, make it 3x and 4x in the SB. I don’t notice a big change in calling. I also play tight and I do want a bit more money when I do enter a pot. I also often pot size when I 3 bet or when I isolate a limper.
I have been considering 3,5x however on the BTN where the range is a bit wider I find this expensive in a pool where nobody seems to be able to fold their BB or SB.
if they are defending too wide in the blinds vs your 3.5 btn and not 3betting enough then you will are in a great spot and you arent losing any ev if you are opening 3.5 with a tighter range ~35%
opening 3.5 would be expensive if the blinds 3bet/squeeze a lot since your getting punished for opening big and having to fold - if not your position is going to print ev to be profitable with any raise size since your getting to realize the equity of your entire range with best position
its also expensive if you open to 3.5 with a range of ~40%+ percent of hands which ought to be raising smaller since now the blinds are calling with a range that does better equity wise
as long as those two conditions are not true then your good to go opening big
The average table on 10nl has some 27/24, 28/25, 24/21 type regs with a 7-10 3-bet% and passive players with 50 vpips on average.
Those lag type regs all have look-how-i-am-studying-poker syndrom. There aren't too many 19/16, 18/15 type players because that's not cool and that's not what they do at midstakes+
if i want to play greater than 20/16 im going to play heads up not 6max
haha! It's really interesting to me that on 10nl it's a exception to find a reg with a lower than 20 vpip. Are they all just losing? Because rake is 7.5% ..
Most regs have 24+
its very boring playing tight low variance game taking standard lines but thats what it takes to be long term winner
The "exception" also becomes normal. If you keep watching training videos where all the interesting spots gets shown all the time, I start to feel like that's how it always is in game.
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