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A8s 3bet pot. STILL LEAKING

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A8s 3bet pot. STILL LEAKING

Blinds: $0.05/$0.10 (6 Players) BN: $13.43
SB: $18.50 (Hero)
BB: $18.65
UTG: $12.91
MP: $12.34
CO: $11.72
Preflop ($0.15) Hero is SB with 8 A
2 folds, CO raises to $0.20, BN folds, Hero raises to $0.70, BB folds, CO calls $0.50
Flop ($1.50) 6 8 4
Hero bets $1.10, CO calls $1.10
Turn ($3.70) 6 8 4 T
Hero bets $2.75, CO calls $2.75
River ($9.20) 6 8 4 T 4
Hero checks, CO bets $4.39, Hero calls $4.39

I am still hemorrhaging money away in pots like this even though I have tightened up other leaks.
When should we fold here? Barreling is fine IMO? given drawy texture.
I call OTR because I imagine he is bluffing all his missed draws, but in retrospect his sizing looks very value-ish and my call is total spew

9 Comments

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Disharmonist 9 years, 11 months ago

Easiest fix is by folding pre. You hand is a very slim +EV 3bet in SB i suppose. Reducing variance by making it a 0 EV play and dont play it at all in this position woul be my prior advice.

As played, you should bet flop for some protection / avoid getting auto barreled and have to fold. Sizing is way too big tough. Turn bet is overplaying the hand, we shouldnt be called by worse or fold out better and just to bet for protection here is a waste when villain should have folded the hands we want to protect against OTF.

River x/Call is probably close to 0 EV when villain bets all busted flushdraws here, but some of them also contain a ten like ATss.

n4sty 9 years, 11 months ago

I like the 3bet pre but agree with the rest, size just over half pot on the flop and x/c the turn imo. 2 reasons I like a x/c are that 1) we get stabs from his weaker hands that floated and 2) we get more potential value versus his A high hands which will fold to a double barrel

doebrain 9 years, 11 months ago

Can we really fold pre here? V minraises from the CO, seems weak. I think our hand is too strong to fold, isolating looks like best option to me.

OTT if we're going to double barrel I think we should make it 75% because if V called with 76-65-54-43 type hands or any Axss, we want to deny pot odds and make him pay to peel, and I do think he is calling with worse (Axss, some suited connectors).

Disharmonist 9 years, 11 months ago

"Can we really fold pre here?" Ofc we can, it is our decision which hands to play. You can even snap fold KJoff against a raise in any position as long as you think you will lose more post than you win and this is not a spot in which we have a 2nd/3rd nut hand and face a big river decision.

Disharmonist 9 years, 11 months ago

"76-65-54-43 type hands or any Axss, " these hands are so seldomly in his preflop calling range and betting to fold out hands with 10% equity is pointless.

I suspect the real problem is that you play a loose agressive style , probably too loose, and put ppl on unlogical ranges because you would have this range yourself.

Limp Limpson 9 years, 11 months ago

Preflop is whatever, close either way. I agree with Disharmonist that folding/even potentially calling, if BB is a rec makes our life easier, but then again, you should get comfortable in tougher spots.
Bet flop a little smaller.

xC once after that, I def. wouldnt put two bets in.
As played, river is a xF imo, you rep one pair prepping to bluffcatch too well and people realized that draws whiffed and, ime, dont bluff them that much.

doebrain 9 years, 11 months ago

Thanks for all the advice. definitely prefer betting smaller OTF. x/c the turn, and x/f the river.

"these hands are so seldomly in his preflop calling range and betting
to fold out hands with 10% equity is pointless."

I think you underestimate what people will minraise/call a small 3bet with at NL10, especially IP. I see suited connectors played like this constantly. IMO when people min raise in MP/CO they are often rec players holding small pp's and suited/unsuited connectors. so I think it's definitely +EV to isolate / value with A8s. Also I'm not betting to "fold out" his hands, I'm betting because I think he will peel his draws

"Ofc we can, it is our decision which hands to play. You can even snap
fold KJoff against a raise in any position"

Why would you compare folding A8s in SB vs late minraise to folding KJo vs. a standard raise in any position.

"I suspect the real problem is that you play a loose agressive style ,
probably too loose, and put ppl on unlogical ranges because you would
have this range yourself."

This may very well be part of the problem. Don't really know what the cut-off is for LAG style. Here are my stats for past 2 days. Do you think I should tighten up? Open to any criticism, pretty new at this so there are probably tons of leaks to left to plug.

Samu Patronen 9 years, 11 months ago

Your line is fine imo. Preflop I would not fold versus a minraise, and calling is meh from the SB, so I would 3bet most of the time. Flop bet is pretty standard. We could check/call the turn, but by betting we do get a lot of protection versus AK/AQ, and we get value from 77/87/76 and so on. Tx is not a huge part of villains range, and he doesn't have many overpairs either. Both options are okey in my opinion, tough to say which is better, probably pretty close in EV.

As played river is somewhat standard check/call imo. We don't block villains bluffs, and we do block 88/T8. Villains sizing is very small too, we have to win like 23% of the time or something, I would definitely call.

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